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Thunderbird Club

Just thought of a negative side:I'll prolly see something in there I have to have,can't find and certainly can't afford.:banghead:

It's a book full of things I can't afford! Most of the basses in the book are owned by a friend in Frankfurt, Germany - I'll be visiting him in a month or so and hopefully get to see a few of them :D
 
Here's the initial rundown of the Ernie Ball Cobalt flats just installed in my Eppi VP TBird...
(Note that I've quoted my original review of the DR Silver Star strings for reference)

Installation
Dang it, the G string came just shy of two full wraps around the tuner post (I like three but two will do). The D, A and E strings were adequate lengths. None of the strings needed trimming. In EB's defense, they included an instruction sheet in the package that I didn't see until I was done and consequently didn't follow (I'll place a pic of the instructions in a separate post for comment, this post is already too long). Following the instructions would have got me close to three full wraps. No taper on these strings before the silks but the silks are fairly close to the nut - so word to the wise on these strings is measure your ball to back of nut length (outta the gutter you bunch of sophomores). If that distance is more than 37" then these strings won't work for you. A bit less tension than the original Eppi strings but noticeably more than the DR SS strings. The E string on this set is a 100 and the ball end was a tight fit in the VP claw hardtail but it did fit and set fine for tuning. Again, word to the wise - E strings much larger than a 100 might be a no go in the VP hardtail without crimping or mashing the ball end windings. All the strings fit in the VP saddles and nut grooves without a problem but the ball end silk and overwrap is about 1" long which means on a three point bridge the E string silk may be on the saddle. I did notice a worrisome frequent "ping" noise as I was bringing the strings up to tension. These are flats so I wouldn't expect them to hang up or bind on anything but that's what was happening either at the break angle of the bridge saddle or possibly at the back top edge of the bridge. I don't think it's a problem but it's the kind of noise a string makes just before it breaks, gets you a bit nervous as you bring it up to tune and hear a string "ping" and ring out every time you budge the tuner key.

Appearance
Typical grey nickel type color strings with attractive dark purple (not gaudy) silks at the tuner end. Naked at the ball end with nice neat overwindings that don't touch the VP saddles. Balls are attractive brass not goofy rainbow colors.

Feel
Very nice tension, high but not bridge cable absurd. Was able to dig in, and play hard without worrying about unintended fret or pup cover clacking. Nice, smooth and fast as flats should be (vs Cobalt Rounds that felt like 50 grit sandpaper to me). Fretting and bends are easy (not effortless like the DR SS strings) and rapid fire triplets and such were much easier. ZZ Top's Dusty Hill would like these strings, he could play his one note three hundred times and not get held up by a slow reacting string.

Sound
Not what I expected. Having tried the Cobalt rounds I assumed the Cobalt flats would also be on the gritty side for flats. Not so. They sound very good but I had to change a lot of how I EQ the onboard controls to get the best out of them. To be honest, after the setup when I first plugged the bass in to the amp I was a bit underwhelmed. I normally favor the neck pup heavily with the volume between 40% to 60% on, set the tone knob at less than 50% and play finger style anywhere between the neck pup and neck heel. With these strings that resulted in a relatively lackluster sound. Not much personality and no real character in the sound (which this bass normally has tons of). However, when I rolled the tone knob up above 50% and the neck volume up between 50% and 80% it really came to life. The notes were rich and full with a very clear musical bloom to them, harmonics rang piano clear and every note was incredibly well defined for a flatwound string. Nothing was harsh or muddy and the mids and highs weren't overbearing as can easily be the case with the VP. That got me to thinking, I had lowered the pups so the DR SS strings would stop clacking against them. So I raised the pups back up as high as I could and that did the trick. Now with tone anywhere north of 10% it sounds great. Below that and volume drops off sharply. Also, possibly not string related but very noticeable with these strings and the elevated pup height - volume knob settings above 90% sound harsh, unpleasant and over saturated, anything below that sounds beautiful.

Overall opinion
Very nice flats. Not quite as bright as new Chrome flats, not quite as dark as new Roto 77 Jazz flats. Superb definition and bloom for a flat, very good for fast note repetitions. Not as much right hand placement/playing style tone change as the DR SS strings pulled off but still responsive to different placements/playing styles. The DR strings were downright finicky (not in a bad way) compared to these. The Cobalts just come across as a hard rockin, carefree, straight forward, low finesse string.

Practical Application
Where the DR SS strings might be an excellent choice for studio work, the Cobalts would be an excellent choice for gigging and live performance stage applications. I didn't get as much variation out of them but they delivered a clean clear flat wound sound that I like better than the Chrome or Roto flats. I'm now complete, with one bird wearing gold coated strings, one bird wearing black tapewound strings and this bird wearing flats. Will the Cobalt flats stay on? Time will tell but about the only thing I'm missing on this bass is the grit and grind that the stock strings delivered, I'd like to get that back without all the top end zing and finger noise, but for now these strings are the nearly what the Doctor ordered. I'm satisfied with the honeymoon, let's see if the marriage lasts.

Interesting review. My set has silks on both ends. My set is also pretty dead now. But i found them to be great right off the gate. Drag about not enough wraps on the G though.

But not sure about this comment, "measure your ball to back of nut length".
 
For your comment...
IMG_1965.JPG

...technically this wrap method I'm sure works just fine. But I gotta say IMHO and in possibly complete ignorance of best stringing practices, this method smacks of bean counter intervention. It saves EB about a half inch on every string they make. That's 2" on a four string set, one full string every 25 sets and one whole set of strings every 100 sets. That's a value engineers dream come true! Unfortunately, for me (the schmuck end user that didn't follow their directions) I end up with a marginally acceptable number of wraps (just shy of two wraps) on my tuning post. I'll live but I'm gonna grumble a bit about it.

PS - although not asking for or following directions is a perfectly normal guy thing, the reason I didn't is that the leaflet slipped out of the package when I opened it and I didn't notice until I had already completed the G and D strings.
 
For your comment...
View attachment 2962743
...technically this wrap method I'm sure works just fine. But I gotta say IMHO and in possibly complete ignorance of best stringing practices, this method smacks of bean counter intervention. It saves EB about a half inch on every string they make. That's 2" on a four string set, one full string every 25 sets and one whole set of strings every 100 sets. That's a value engineers dream come true! Unfortunately, for me (the schmuck end user that didn't follow their directions) I end up with a marginally acceptable number of wraps (just shy of two wraps) on my tuning post. I'll live but I'm gonna grumble a bit about it.

PS - although not asking for or following directions is a perfectly normal guy thing, the reason I didn't is that the leaflet slipped out of the package when I opened it and I didn't notice until I had already completed the G and D strings.

I did not follow these instructions, and had no problems whatsoever. I think when these strings were first on the market, there were breaking issues. And following this method of wrapping was to prevent it, i think.
 
Interesting review. My set has silks on both ends. My set is also pretty dead now. But i found them to be great right off the gate. Drag about not enough wraps on the G though.

But not sure about this comment, "measure your ball to back of nut length".
Yeah, the silk comment was a typo and has been fixed, silk is on both ends.
IMG_1968.JPG

...here's the issue on the distance from the ball to back of nut, that silk is pretty close to the nut. If that hard tail was back a half inch further or if it was a string through body these strings would not work.
 
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I did not follow these instructions, and had no problems whatsoever. I think when these strings were first on the market, there were breaking issues. And following this method of wrapping was to prevent it, i think.
That's probably what they claim but actually in that winding method there are now two excessive stress points which potentially doubles the chances of breakage. I suspect what they were finding is that on longer basses like the VP there aren't enough windings around the tuning post to keep the string from slipping out of tune. And because they already saved a bunch of money in reduced material costs by using shorter strings they weren't about to retool for longer strings to solve the problem. Instead, doing a half shaft looping of the tuner is an excellent way of eliminating slippage, time will tell if the unintended consequence is premature string breakage from too many impingement points.

In the meantime I'm enjoying the strings and noting that on any other full scale bass I have these would work fine, the VP is just a monster of a long string bass.
 
That's probably what they claim but actually in that winding method there are now two excessive stress points which potentially doubles the chances of breakage. I suspect what they were finding is that on longer basses like the VP there aren't enough windings around the tuning post to keep the string from slipping out of tune. And because they already saved a bunch of money in reduced material costs by using shorter strings they weren't about to retool for longer strings to solve the problem. Instead, doing a half shaft looping of the tuner is an excellent way of eliminating slippage, time will tell if the unintended consequence is premature string breakage from too many impingement points.

In the meantime I'm enjoying the strings and noting that on any other full scale bass I have these would work fine, the VP is just a monster of a long string bass.

Makes sense.
 
Yeah, the silk comment was a typo and has been fixed, silk is on both ends.
View attachment 2962761
...here's the issue on the distance from the ball to back of nut, that silk is pretty close to the nut. If that hard tail was back a half inch further or if it was a string through body these strings would not work.
The chromes on my'67 NR are closer than that.Still sounds good anyway:)
 
Hey pedal people, do you have a take on the Darkglass BK7 tube preamp pedal?

Just curious, there's one down my street for $220.

Hey CB, i had the B7K a while back, i thought it was a little brittle sounding. I currently have the B7K ultra, has some added eq points, and to my ears is much warmer sounding.
Very organic, and a lot of tones on tap. There's no tube in it though. What type of sound are you looking to add? If it were me, i'd get the Aguilar Tone Hammer over the B7K.
But the DG Vintage Ultra and B7Ku are tops in my book.
 
I’ve been following this build off from the get go. Loved every minute of it and cast my vote for my favorite 3. It’s easy to criticize when something doesn’t fit ones personal aesthetic, but there’s no way I could dismiss the blood, sweat and tears that goes into these builds. Incredible skill and vision. TB rules forbid calling someone else’s bass ugly and for very good reason. It’s fvcking rude and uncalled for, especially when you consider all the time and effort required to take something like this from concept to playable instrument in such a short time. All the builders involved this year should be well pleased. Very impressive!

+1
 
But I gotta say IMHO and in possibly complete ignorance of best stringing practices, this method smacks of bean counter intervention. It saves EB about a half inch on every string they make. That's 2" on a four string set, one full string every 25 sets and one whole set of strings every 100 sets. That's a value engineers dream come true!

I can't in good conscience agree that this is a bean counter (accountant) thing. Perhaps a process engineer who is trying to make points. But, from a cost point of view, I have to think that the BOM on strings is tiny in comparison to price. There are probably bigger savings available in packaging. Then again, perhaps not packaging - everything has been moved to those mylar packages that cost a fraction of nothing each. If there were a drive to get costs out being lead by the front office, endorsements would be up first. Cut the amount of free product being shipped to endorsed artists, cut the swag, and rationalize the list of endorsing artists.

Hey pedal people, do you have a take on the Darkglass BK7 tube preamp pedal?

Just curious, there's one down my street for $220.

Cue the cult ;)

Hey CB, i had the B7K a while back, i thought it was a little brittle sounding. I currently have the B7K ultra, has some added eq points, and to my ears is much warmer sounding.
Very organic, and a lot of tones on tap. There's no tube in it though. What type of sound are you looking to add? If it were me, i'd get the Aguilar Tone Hammer over the B7K.
But the DG Vintage Ultra and B7Ku are tops in my book.

Putting the Tone Hammer above a DG product? You will be in trouble with the cult! :roflmao:

Seriously though, why are `bird people so much more rational than the Gen Pop (limited to matters relating to Basses, amplification, and accessories; still plenty of quirks in the club outside that)
 
As it should!
What's the distance from the ball end to the back of the nut on your '67 NR?
36+1/4 (+/-).Old eyes don't see tick marks very well. As an aside, I've never held my old 'Bird next to a newer NR,but I think mine is about 3/4"longer.I bought an Epi case(ohsc"died")and the only way it would fit was to cut off the end of the headstock[NO,I DIDN'T]. I wound up buying a Dean heavy duty gig bag.BTW,this bass only goes outta the house if the stage is WELL separated from the audience.Take a guess how I learned that very expensive and painful lesson:bawl:BTW,just for grins I tried putting the'67 NR in the'96 NR Epi 5 string's case.Nope! Addendum:some(most?)of the places we play have a small band AREA-not even "stand".On those I use my $190 Squier VM Jag SS. If something happened to it I'd be ticked but not devastated:(
 
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I was messing with an EXH Bass Big Muff off and on, and it's pretty good for some things. It's not completely over the top, but it's pretty aggressive. I'm expecting the Soul Food to be more along the lines of what I'm interested in. But who knows until it turns up. It's journey. Fortunately, I can afford the expense up to a point. I haven't found the right distortion for fuzz bow yet, either. We were making another attempt at recording, including putting a jury-rigged cardboard box around the drummer to control bleed, and I tried the Big Muff on a song I bow on. It kinda sucked. Oh, well. I think I like the completely outrageous sputtering Bass Fog pedal better. It's a Woolly Mammoth clone, which means it's probably intended for FSO owning metal players, not fuzz bow. Fuzz bow needs too be precise, but nasty.
That's turning out to be more of a challenge than I thought. I'm turning into a #$@ tone hound over fuzz bow. Who woulda thunk it?