Thunderbird Club

[PillO]

True. Similar to people complaining about being "ripped off and kicked out of a house due to foreclosure." It's a long process with plenty of chances to engage and attempt a resolution other than foreclosure. In my work I get people making such complaints and are seeking something from someone else to fix it. At some point I often have to say, Look, you didn't get in this shape in a week, and I can't fix it in a week. Context sheds a whole light.

I once had the privilege of hearing "chainsaw" Al Dunlap speak. He made many good points including - he didn't break the company, he was fixing it. the blame for the pain belonged to the previous management who had allowed the company to get into that state. Also, if he hadn't laid off 1/3 of the employees, all the employees would have been out of work; he didn't kill one in three jobs, he save two in three.

 

[TBird1958]

I got "Fire and Water" as a gift way back in the day, I still love Free, what great band - It all fit together so well, Andy Fraser's choice of bass was perfect for the sparse, stripped down sound where every note counted. EB-3 and Orange, I like all the chords Fraser throws in.

 

[Miles_ONeal]

I got "Fire and Water" as a gift way back in the day, I still love Free, what great band - It all fit together so well, Andy Fraser's choice of bass was perfect for the sparse, stripped down sound where every note counted. EB-3 and Orange, I like all the chords Fraser throws in.

Always loved that version. Hadn't heard this version. Thanks!

 

[Rocker47]

Recently I’ve been listening to the Picturebooks ‘Home is a Heartache’. Interesting stuff.
Kath & Kim might say “It’s noice, it’s different, it’s unusual”.

I know zip about them and was wondering if they may be a Native American band? So, I’m on the train just now and googled them... a German duo.

Funny that you have heard of them. Way up here in the great white north our band played the after party for them and Monster Truck. For those who don’t know, they are a two piece band, drums and guitar. Pretty cool tunes and kinda interesting live. The guitar players Dad, Claus, is an incredible person. He does their sound and was once a pro skateboarder! He even has a signature model. We chatted for quite a while with them. Very very nice people. So down to earth. It was a pleasure to play the same night as them and Monster Truck. Total class acts in every aspect. I’m glad they are getting their name out. The father was also a singer in the 80’s band scene. He was telling us about touring with Bon Jovi and others alike. We were lucky to play both nights with them. Good memories to have, for sure!

 

[RedVee]

Funny that you have heard of them. Way up here in the great white north our band played the after party for them and Monster Truck. For those who don’t know, they are a two piece band, drums and guitar. Pretty cool tunes and kinda interesting live. The guitar players Dad, Claus, is an incredible person. He does their sound and was once a pro skateboarder! He even has a signature model. We chatted for quite a while with them. Very very nice people. So down to earth. It was a pleasure to play the same night as them and Monster Truck. Total class acts in every aspect. I’m glad they are getting their name out. The father was also a singer in the 80’s band scene. He was telling us about touring with Bon Jovi and others alike. We were lucky to play both nights with them. Good memories to have, for sure!

Cool story, thanks. Yep I’ll look a bit more into them. Maybe Monster Trucks also.

 

[JIO]

James Bond played harmonica... Who knew...

Shaken, not rock & rolled...

 

[GonePlaid]

Funny that you have heard of them. Way up here in the great white north our band played the after party for them and Monster Truck. For those who don’t know, they are a two piece band, drums and guitar. Pretty cool tunes and kinda interesting live. The guitar players Dad, Claus, is an incredible person. He does their sound and was once a pro skateboarder! He even has a signature model. We chatted for quite a while with them. Very very nice people. So down to earth. It was a pleasure to play the same night as them and Monster Truck. Total class acts in every aspect. I’m glad they are getting their name out. The father was also a singer in the 80’s band scene. He was telling us about touring with Bon Jovi and others alike. We were lucky to play both nights with them. Good memories to have, for sure!

There's a 'band'(can't recall their name)I've seen on late night repeats of Brit Festivals consisting of drums and bass-with a lotta efx. I think he was playing a 'J'. Woulda sounded better with a Bird.

 

[JD Ronson]

So... today I had the first opportunity to play my brand new 1997 Squier Jazz Bass after upgrading its horrid electronics and giving it a good setup. So here’s my thoughts.
Both my other basses are neck through. The ESP fretless is balanced, light and, easy to play as rubbing my fingers together. It’s flaws were in its Korean pots which have been replaced.
The epi TBird vintage is sloppy unbalanced. But it has the best natural growl. It’s hardware and electronics are amazing. It wears me out a little playing it, but I love it for all the right reasons.

That brings me to the Squier. Its neck has a formidable flaw - the bolt on neck has a little ramp where the years have caused it some warpage - otherwise known as a ski ramp or a 15th fret kink. Playing low in the groove pocket leaves little to be desired, however, and it sounds like a jazz bass when running standard and much like a p bass when switched to series mode. It’s also heavy, but does have a specific use.

I do not have enough time with it to say much more than it’s a good playing bass that will probably be better if I put another neck on it.

Overall I still like playing the Thunderbird best as a rock bass, and the fretless I like best for most everyday playing, as I’ve become very accustomed to it. I’m not sold on Fender style basses - they just seem to fall short.

For me, meh.

 

[MCF]

Not to pick on either of you specifically, but people get this wrong.
From the outside, the course of events is - product disappears from website with note that it is due to Gibson cease and desist. Gibson are bastards.

From the inside, the process is much more involved. The first thing that happens is a cease and desist letter. That gets shown to corporate counsel who present what the options are. Options include: choose to negotiate a license, choose to fight it out in court, choose to ignore it and hope it all goes away (but be prepared to go to court), choose to discontinue product.

None of us (unless someone here is counsel to Reverend or Gibson, and if so is probably bound by confidentiality) know what decisions were made internally. I can bet that the process took at least 3 months and probably took a year or more. An assessment of the ability to fight (cost as well as likely outcome) indicated that it was a poor option for any number of reasons including that perhaps they don't sell many. An assessment of the license negotiation process indicated that they could not raise the price of the item enough to compensate for the added cost. So the decision was to let the product line go thereby complying with the cease and desist.

On the inside, both sides made a series of decisions that resulted in a business decision to stop production.

You’re essentially correct. But the tactics Gibson is employing are heavy handed IMO. And the ultimate losers, after those at the smaller companies who’ll get laid off, are consumers who won’t be able to obtain an instrument that Gibson will never build. I’m a lawyer. I can be a jerk when I need to be. That’s rare. I believe morality has to be a part of our system. But I’m old school. From everything I’ve seen, they are crossing the line. On advice of counsel. Just my opinion. And I’m crossing days off on the calendar until I’m no longer a part of a legal system that at its heart has transformed into a money making business for lawyers. I won’t say anymore about this.

 

[MCF]

Tuesday I get a text from the guitarist telling me that our drummer was asking the singer about doing Tom Sawyer. So let’s try it at Wednesday night practice!
Yikes I didn’t have time to look at it on Tuesday night, and I’ve never played it, but we went for it anyway.
4-5 runs through and I’d say it’s a keeper. (Our guitarist brought out an 80’s synth so those sounds were there)

I couldn’t play the guitar solo section at speed, and I kept train wrecking it.
But with some practice by me and the drummer, it will work.

Gonna have to put RS66s back on the VP though

I’m impressed!

 

[Jonithen]

The forward tilt ? Place your strap so that it travels across the rear bout between strap bolt and shoulder

Just tried it and works perfectly. I'm going to see if I can just deal, maybe I can change my left wrist position a bit and get to a good place but this is an awesome trick to have in the back pocket if I need it!

 

[PillO]

You’re essentially correct. But the tactics Gibson is employing are heavy handed IMO. And the ultimate losers, after those at the smaller companies who’ll get laid off, are consumers who won’t be able to obtain an instrument that Gibson will never build. I’m a lawyer. I can be a jerk when I need to be. That’s rare. I believe morality has to be a part of our system. But I’m old school. From everything I’ve seen, they are crossing the line. On advice of counsel. Just my opinion. And I’m crossing days off on the calendar until I’m no longer a part of a legal system that at its heart has transformed into a money making business for lawyers. I won’t say anymore about this.

It can be worse than a thankless job when you have to tell people thing they would rather not hear. They will tell you the way the world should be and that you are part of the problem. Everyone is looking for someone to blame and "lawyers", "management", and other nameless faceless people make convenient scapegoats.

I can explain why Gibson is doing what they are doing. It is neither right nor wrong, it is just doing what is in the best interests of the business. What many don't appreciate is how much is going on that they do not see and can't put into context what they do see. I suppose the worst is that most see a cease and desist letter as a threat whereas I see it as an invitation to negotiate and filing a lawsuit is just a demonstration that you are very serious about reaching a deal.

Knowing as we know now that the dealings with Dean started before the chapter 11 proceedings, I am betting that Dean decided to see if that changed anything and see how much they could get away with. I also suspect that there was an offer from Gibson on the table to allow continued production of at least the explorer and v for about 5-8% of the dealer price. Dean was probably about half that and walked away (which is also a negotiating tactic). I don't think this is going to end up in court. I think we will see a settlement. Everything we are seeing is just posturing.

I still like lawyer jokes though...

 

[PillO]

Just tried it and works perfectly. I'm going to see if I can just deal, maybe I can change my left wrist position a bit and get to a good place but this is an awesome trick to have in the back pocket if I need it!

Using a little bit of plucking hand/forearm goes a fair ways too.

 

[BurtMacklinFBI]

You’re essentially correct. But the tactics Gibson is employing are heavy handed IMO. And the ultimate losers, after those at the smaller companies who’ll get laid off, are consumers who won’t be able to obtain an instrument that Gibson will never build. I’m a lawyer. I can be a jerk when I need to be. That’s rare. I believe morality has to be a part of our system. But I’m old school. From everything I’ve seen, they are crossing the line. On advice of counsel. Just my opinion. And I’m crossing days off on the calendar until I’m no longer a part of a legal system that at its heart has transformed into a money making business for lawyers. I won’t say anymore about this.

I dunno, I basically agree on everything but the moral importance of the whole affair. It’s a guitar shape. No one is going to go hungry over this, Reverend isn’t going to be put out of business. I see no particular reason to think that Reverend is somehow owed the right to make a Gibson-style flying V. It just means that consumers won’t be able to easily buy a very specific design of Reverend guitar. That sucks, but it sucks in the same way McDonalds discontinuing the McRib the day before you REALLY want one sucks. I think the moral aspect of this whole thing is blown way out of proportion.

 

[GBassNorth]

So...
The epi TBird vintage is sloppy unbalanced. But it has the best natural growl. It’s hardware and electronics are amazing. It wears me out a little playing it, but I love it for all the right reasons.....
Overall I still like playing the Thunderbird best as a rock bass, and the fretless I like best for most everyday playing, as I’ve become very accustomed to it. I’m not sold on Fender style basses - they just seem to fall short.
For me, meh.

Not sure exactly what you're dealing with on the VP but there are a lot of tips and tricks in the club here that might help with your balance issue. Hipshot ultralights, upper strap pin placement, strap size, strap length and playing position all impact balance on a bird. A bird is a beautiful sound, but when you're not fighting it, it's just bliss.

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

a now happy RD-50.....man these things are LOUD...

 

[GonePlaid]

I dunno, I basically agree on everything but the moral importance of the whole affair. It’s a guitar shape. No one is going to go hungry over this, Reverend isn’t going to be put out of business. I see no particular reason to think that Reverend is somehow owed the right to make a Gibson-style flying V. It just means that consumers won’t be able to easily buy a very specific design of Reverend guitar. That sucks, but it sucks in the same way McDonalds discontinuing the McRib the day before you REALLY want one sucks. I think the moral aspect of this whole thing is blown way out of proportion.

Yeah, but the McRib sucks-IMHO.

 

[Count Bassie]

McAnything sucks. McJob, McBand, McFriends.
Their coffee is pretty good.

 

[BklynKen]

The latest on the ribbon part of the club. I sent those pictures to Steve Sank who said the shell probably needs a vent to sound good. He says he can do that with a Dremmel and make it look reasonably good. Same with a vent in the front. His take on the ribbon was the same as mine - whoever did that had not evolved to CroMagnon level of stone ax use. But, he says the ribbon motor itself is a good, robust design. I'll end up with more into it than it's ever going to be worth, but then it will never be worth all that much except as a useful tool anyway. Plus, the weirdness factor will always be there, provided that the French Foreign Legion hit squad who are currently tracking me down for having the stolen and missing seventh L'Industrelle Des Microphones control unit don't strike before it can be done.

There's one twist to the official story that has to be added. It is that the rebels were encamped along the Spanish border and would do cross border raids at times, creating havoc and sometimes racing bicycles.

Worst case, seems like you could always use it as a hammer. That would fit quite nicely into your Cro-Magnon theme, too. Alternatively, if you can find a second, you could set up jousts for the rebels with their racing bikes.

 

[PillO]

I dunno, I basically agree on everything but the moral importance of the whole affair. It’s a guitar shape. No one is going to go hungry over this, Reverend isn’t going to be put out of business. I see no particular reason to think that Reverend is somehow owed the right to make a Gibson-style flying V. It just means that consumers won’t be able to easily buy a very specific design of Reverend guitar. That sucks, but it sucks in the same way McDonalds discontinuing the McRib the day before you REALLY want one sucks. I think the moral aspect of this whole thing is blown way out of proportion.

If you are jonesing for McRib, you have bigger problems than what bass you can buy.