Thunderbird Club

[KaraQ]

.... .The Philadelphia Luthier Tools pickup covers look like they should fit perfectly for a VP, are a bit too small for a CP, .....

The chrome ones on my CP came from Philadelphia Luthiers - a very snug slip-fit. Not sure they'd ever come back off......

 

[Miles_ONeal]

The chrome ones on my CP came from Philadelphia Luthiers - a very snug slip-fit. Not sure they'd ever come back off......

Thanks. That's good to know. How did they fit the pickup cutout holes?
I was just comparing external dimensions, unwilling to rip apart pickups from my main players without a darned good reason!

 

[JIO]

Our day (literally) of recording Sunday went well. 9 hrs, ...10 hrs counting my individual session w/Robert on Friday dialing in my bass tone. (...and not to mention post production mixing happening this week) Many overdubs (vocals, horns, guitars) added up to more time.., but just wait till you hear these songs. Everyone brought their A-game (as I knew they would) and we all had fun working together towards our goal. As Robert said (and I whole-heartedly agree) "...if it ain't fun, why are you doing it?".

Paul was MVP as he wrote two of the songs, sang lead on one of them, sang dual lead w/Kirstin on another (and background on another), and overdubbed multiple guitars and horns. On our instrumental, he did 3 lead takes and every one was different and every one rocked! So it wasn't like having to choose the one that had less or no "mistakes", but instead it was choosing the one that fit the song best. (which in fact was the 3rd/last lead)

Paul, Kirstin and Steve are all really top-drawer players/musicians. These recording sessions have made that pretty clear to me and anyone with ears after they hear it - we have what it takes as a band, and working with Robert to document us. Robert's a really sweet, knowledgable guy - he's a talented Bay Area guitarist as well! I feel so lucky to share my/our 'vision' with such gifted/talented, and most importantly - nice people. Can't wait to play live again - part of rehearsing these songs over and over and recording them (over and over multiple takes critically) will give us the confidence to rock them with conviction in front of an audience. My goal is to cement an impression on anyone who hears us, as in - "wow, that was a really a fun set!" ... along with documenting TSC's with these recordings as far as a record of our "product" (what we represent) - being part of shared creative output is at the top of my list of objectives.

I planted the seed with Paul saying to Robert that we will hopefully record again in December - 4 new songs, three of them Paul originals. Paul said; "I better get to work!" - exactly, but actually there are three already in the making - two already rehearsed a bit - "The Man Who Never Sleeps" and "Dollar Bill". Paul & I have gone over the 3rd one, but have yet to get Kirstin & Steve in on it.

Kirstin took pics and vids of our session - so maybe I'll post a couple soon...

 

[GBassNorth]

Good question!

We know the Gibby pups can fit with the plastic shell removed.

However, the Eppi pups are longer with the shell ON at 3.84” x 1.50” than the Gibby pups with the shell ON. So it’s easy to assume (as I did) that they will be longer than the Gibby pups with the shell off as well.

We know the Chrome covers will fit over anything less than 3.63” x 1.57”.

At first glance the Eppi pups look like they’ll be too long even with the plastic wrap removed…
View attachment 4579028
However, when you flip the pup over you’ll see there is a significant air space on each end before you ever get to the epoxy surrounding the windings….
View attachment 4579025
So theoretically, if one were to remove the plastic casing material from the two long sides of the Eppi pup they would free up .18” for a new width of 1.32” (that’s less than the 1.57” space in the chrome cover - so it fits in that direction).

Then if you remove the .325” of air space and casing on each end of the pup you free up another .650” in length for a total new length of 3.19” (that’s less than the 3.63” space in the chrome cover - so it appears to fit in that direction as well).

Another consideration would be the mounting screws. Eppi uses three (two on one end and one on the other) vs the chrome covers only requiring two screws. The chrome cover screw holes are 3.3” apart, which should just clear the epoxy cover, so I think you’re close but ok there as well.

The final consideration would be, do the trim rings fit on the center block and cover the original body routing? The Eppi body route is virtually the exact same size as the outside length of the chrome trim ring. There will be zero room for error but it will JUST cover the route length. It’s fine on the width. Unfortunately, that means that the four corner screws of the trim ring won’t have any body top wood to bite into. You’d either have to glue some small blocks of wood in the cavity or use longer pup screws vs trim ring screws.

Bottom line, it can be done with finesse on the plastic shell removal and the trim ring install.

Inspired by @GBassNorth to get back to modding the IV. Looking into pickups, and of course the cheap Epi has the weirdest pickups/holes. The Philadelphia Luthier Tools pickup covers look like they should fit perfectly for a VP, are a bit too small for a CP, and are definitely too small lengthwise for the standard IV. I may just be able to pull it off with mounting rings though I expect I'll need to provide new pilings for the p/u mounting screws.
I'm guessing any of the usually recommended pickups here would fit into the Philadelphia Luthier covers (3 5/8" x 1 1/2")?

A few dozen pages back I looked into putting chrome pup covers and rings on a standard Eppi IV bird. I’ve attached my findings in the post above. Hope it helps you.

 

[KaraQ]

Thanks. That's good to know. How did they fit the pickup cutout holes?
I was just comparing external dimensions, unwilling to rip apart pickups from my main players without a darned good reason!

I couldn't find a pic of them without the rings covering the gap, but they're slightly smaller than with the plastic covers, I assume because the steel is thinner than the plastic?

 

[GBassNorth]

Finally some sound clips of the Tbird Shootout! (Test details are listed in the post quoted above).

Recall there were six Tbirds in the shootout (two Gibsons, two Epiphones, a Greco and the BlingBird) and a total of three different heats. I’ll wait until tuesday to reveal the actual order they were recorded in each heat, but I will say that I did keep the recording order the same for each heat. So if the Greco was the first bass recorded in the first heat it is also the first bass in the second and third heats, and so on.

Keep in mind that each bass is sporting different strings, and that can also go a long way in how a bass sounds. Finally, don’t forget, this was meant to be a quick and dirty test of the basses, not my playing ability, so please try to overlook the clams and sloppy playing. And as always, better speakers or headphones will make it easier to hear the differences between basses.

On with the shootout…

Heat One - noodeling around on the G and D strings (I forgot to trim the 30 second dead air time before the first bass)


Heat Two - a slow run up the A string with LedZep in mind


Heat Three - a short walk on the A and E strings


Did you have an overall favorite? Or a favorite in each heat? Was there as much difference as you were expecting? Can you spot the Nylon Tape strings or the Cobalt Flats or the Optima Golds?

fingers crossed that the sound files loaded correctly.

For those that listened to the sound clips and others that might be curious about how one type of thunderbird sounds compared to another or impact of string selections on your bass here’s the order the basses were recorded in on the sound clips above…

Recording order:
1) BlingBird (Optima Gold round wounds)
2) Gibson 2013 Gold Anniversary (Optima Gold round wounds)
3) Epiphone VP (Fender 7150 round wound nickels)
4) 1990 Greco IV (GHS Boomers nickel round wound std core)
5) Epiphone Goth (.022uf tone cap and Cobalt flats)
6) Gibson 2015 (La Bella Black nylon tape wounds)

Test notes:
All basses set with all pickup volumes at 80% and all Tone knobs at 50%
Right hand position at top edge of neck pup (center pup on bling)
Finger style playing,

Ranking:
To my ears the Greco and Goth were neck and neck at the top of the pack. Followed closely by the BlingBird. Then the 2013 and 2015 Gibsons pretty much mid pack both neck and neck, and the VP bringing up the rear.

Strings:
Only two basses had the same strings (Bling and 2013) so that’s the purest bass comparison of the bunch. If you’ve been Tape curious, listen to track 6 in each heat it’s a fairly accurate example of what tapes will make your bird sound like. If you have a Goth and it doesn’t sound like track 5 it’s probably because of the combination of the .022 tone cap I installed and the addition of Cobalt flats. Lastly, I think the VP would have faired much better with Cobalt flats (possibly the same for the Bling) but Cobalts would have hurt the 2015.

 

[GonePlaid]

For those that listened to the sound clips and others that might be curious about how one type of thunderbird sounds compared to another or impact of string selections on your bass here’s the order the basses were recorded in on the sound clips above…

Recording order:
1) BlingBird (Optima Gold round wounds)
2) Gibson 2013 Gold Anniversary (Optima Gold round wounds)
3) Epiphone VP (Fender 7150 round wound nickels)
4) 1990 Greco IV (GHS Boomers nickel round wound std core)
5) Epiphone Goth (.022uf tone cap and Cobalt flats)
6) Gibson 2015 (La Bella Black nylon tape wounds)

Test notes:
All basses set with all pickup volumes at 80% and all Tone knobs at 50%
Right hand position at top edge of neck pup (center pup on bling)
Finger style playing,

Ranking:
To my ears the Greco and Goth were neck and neck at the top of the pack. Followed closely by the BlingBird. Then the 2013 and 2015 Gibsons pretty much mid pack both neck and neck, and the VP bringing up the rear.

Strings:
Only two basses had the same strings (Bling and 2013) so that’s the purest bass comparison of the bunch. If you’ve been Tape curious, listen to track 6 in each heat it’s a fairly accurate example of what tapes will make your bird sound like. If you have a Goth and it doesn’t sound like track 5 it’s probably because of the combination of the .022 tone cap I installed and the addition of Cobalt flats. Lastly, I think the VP would have faired much better with Cobalt flats (possibly the same for the Bling) but Cobalts would have hurt the 2015.

As long as they don't hurt yer fingers.

 

[dagrev]

I can’t tell from the pic, but is that a tone cap? If so, is the cap value .001uf? If so, that would normally be an incredibly bright cap, might as well not even have one.

Yes it is. Interesting observation. Thanks for noticing that.

 

[dagrev]

Our day (literally) of recording Sunday went well. 9 hrs, ...10 hrs counting my individual session w/Robert on Friday dialing in my bass tone. (...and not to mention post production mixing happening this week) Many overdubs (vocals, horns, guitars) added up to more time.., but just wait till you hear these songs. Everyone brought their A-game (as I knew they would) and we all had fun working together towards our goal. As Robert said (and I whole-heartedly agree) "...if it ain't fun, why are you doing it?".

Paul was MVP as he wrote two of the songs, sang lead on one of them, sang dual lead w/Kirstin on another (and background on another), and overdubbed multiple guitars and horns. On our instrumental, he did 3 lead takes and every one was different and every one rocked! So it wasn't like having to choose the one that had less or no "mistakes", but instead it was choosing the one that fit the song best. (which in fact was the 3rd/last lead)

Paul, Kirstin and Steve are all really top-drawer players/musicians. These recording sessions have made that pretty clear to me and anyone with ears after they hear it - we have what it takes as a band, and working with Robert to document us. Robert's a really sweet, knowledgable guy - he's a talented Bay Area guitarist as well! I feel so lucky to share my/our 'vision' with such gifted/talented, and most importantly - nice people. Can't wait to play live again - part of rehearsing these songs over and over and recording them (over and over multiple takes critically) will give us the confidence to rock them with conviction in front of an audience. My goal is to cement an impression on anyone who hears us, as in - "wow, that was a really a fun set!" ... along with documenting TSC's with these recordings as far as a record of our "product" (what we represent) - being part of shared creative output is at the top of my list of objectives.

I planted the seed with Paul saying to Robert that we will hopefully record again in December - 4 new songs, three of them Paul originals. Paul said; "I better get to work!" - exactly, but actually there are three already in the making - two already rehearsed a bit - "The Man Who Never Sleeps" and "Dollar Bill". Paul & I have gone over the 3rd one, but have yet to get Kirstin & Steve in on it.

Kirstin took pics and vids of our session - so maybe I'll post a couple soon...

It's great when it all comes together. It's even better if you enjoy the people you are doing music with.

 

[PillO]

As long as they don't hurt yer fingers.

 

[PhR75]

T-Bird Tuesday and a new pedal day.

I was looking for a simple preamp for home recording since I already have a cab&power amp simulator. I realized that I usually touch only the mid control when using a real amp so this used Artec para-EQ seems to be a perfect solution. It has a Q-control (width knob), frequency from 30hz to 8khz and of course a cut/boost knob (gain). And no DI out, overdrive, cab sim, FX loop, bluetooth, headphone out, car park, coffee machine etc.
20 euros.

 

[WillyW]

out for delivery day!

 

[TBird1958]

Pure Wheat!

Rocking the Inverness Green Non Reverse live.

 

[dagrev]

T-Bird Tuesday and a new pedal day.
View attachment 4595648

I was looking for a simple preamp for home recording since I already have a cab&power amp simulator. I realized that I usually touch only the mid control when using a real amp so this used Artec para-EQ seems to be a perfect solution. It has a Q-control (width knob), frequency from 30hz to 8khz and of course a cut/boost knob (gain). And no DI out, overdrive, cab sim, FX loop, bluetooth, headphone out, car park, coffee machine etc.
20 euros.

I like parametric EQ. That should be a great addition.

 

[dagrev]

out for delivery day!

View attachment 4595674

You know it came with frets, right?

Looks cool!

 

[Larry V]

Pure Wheat!

Rocking the Inverness Green Non Reverse live.

Just 4 days after I saw them in Charlotte.

 

[MCF]

T-Bird Tuesday and a new pedal day.
View attachment 4595648

I was looking for a simple preamp for home recording since I already have a cab&power amp simulator. I realized that I usually touch only the mid control when using a real amp so this used Artec para-EQ seems to be a perfect solution. It has a Q-control (width knob), frequency from 30hz to 8khz and of course a cut/boost knob (gain). And no DI out, overdrive, cab sim, FX loop, bluetooth, headphone out, car park, coffee machine etc.
20 euros.

If we’re doing T-bird Tuesday…

I got most of my CDs up to the mountain place. And I actually spent the time to organize them. Box sets are staying in our primary home for now. The vinyl collection will also have to wait until we move up there full time.

 

[bobyoung53]

Whereas the FMV controls always hurt my brain. They made no sense to me.

They just don't do a hell of a lot. The 69-80 SVT midrange control is active and was probably the first amp with an active tone control although I don't know that for sure. Bassman's had an ultra low and an ultra high (separate channels) with no mid control. Dual Showman's had bass, mid, treble with a bright switch but they were basically guitar amps. Marshalls had bass, mid, treble, and presence but nothing had active controls that I know of

 

[dagrev]

They just don't do a hell of a lot. The 69-80 SVT midrange control is active and was probably the first amp with an active tone control although I don't know that for sure. Bassman's had an ultra low and an ultra high (separate channels) with no mid control. Dual Showman's had bass, mid, treble with a bright switch but they were basically guitar amps. Marshalls had bass, mid, treble, and presence but nothing had active controls that I know of

Interestingly enough my older V4-BH heads also have a "Presence" button on the back which sounds different from the Ultra Hi on the font.

PRESENCE SWITCH: When this switch is depressed a high frequency boost is added to the output signal. This helps compensate for a speaker cabinet with no high frequency driver, adding a glassy top end to the sound.

I personally don't think of it as "glassy" sounding, but does add a little top end bite in a good way if wanted.

 

[dagrev]

Phaser Tuesday, right? Darn that Willy. He's messing with the whole universe....if it even exists....