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Time to leave ?

#41
Doley50 said:
for a little over 2 years now I have been playing in a top 40 coverband , this is the first working band I have ever been in , however I feel I am losing my patience with how the band is being managed. In the beginning the BL and I worked more like partners, Working out the details from sound , promo , and so on , we talked with the notion that we ( the band ) was going to be a democracy, but now things have turned more into a dictatorship ( when it's convenient for the BL ) at this point my " responsibilities " are to pick up th PA at the BL house , arrive at the club usually an hour or so before show time ( which I have to call the club because the BL never knows when we are suppose to go on ) I unload most of the PA before anyone eles shows up, however the guitarist does help . I set up the PA , run the sound. The BL who is the drummer usually shows up last and takes a long time to set up because , he has to talk to everyone in the club!. The singer who belives she is the best singer in our state! Her words ! Will order something to eat while we are setting up ! When I complain about this behavior, the BL tells me that this is how it is with all singers in every band!! I say ******** !!
How much we get paid for a show is never disclosed , I have to ask , we should know what we're are getting paid ! , the thing is that in the beginning it was always disclosed and we always got paid at the end of the night , things change and it has to do with argent fees and taxes. Some clubs now have the BL fill out a tax form and pay with a check , with the BL withholds 20% for taxes , because this is his tax bracket, I would prefer to get I9 at the end of the year but I look at like the extra he does get is for booking the shows. I have always told him to take 10% for booking , but he refuses he would rather soak us in other stupid ways! Like spending money on websites and other stupid poopie , then he'll send out a text saying oh guys I spent $800 on expenses how do you want to pay me back ! You owe me $200 each you want me to deduct of from this weekends gigs ?
Now I don't have a problem paying for expenses but I feel we should be told beforehand how much is going to be spent and on what and we should all agree on it .
The BL has let the singer cancel and turn down shows because " she " don't want to do them ! He created a monster with this singer ! I have been playing music for over 25 plus years and have dellt with a lot of personalities but this is 2 much for me !
Click to expand...

You wouldn't stay in a business like this, so................
 
#42
I would charge him a flat fee for playing and charge him for loading and setting up the PA. As you said it was a democracy and if he wants it to be his band and make you a hired gun he's gotta pay. Other than that I would quit if I am a sideman my pay isn't going to be deducted for band promotion. If it's the BL's band he can pay for promotion on his dime.
 
#44
ray charles hit the road, jack.png
...at the risk of sounding flippant, even I (the nicest, mellowest, bassist in the Northern Hemisph...well, in my zip code, anyway) wouldn't put up with half the feces you've described.
 
#45
MrLenny1 said:
Leave. Life is too short. Female singers are usually very hard to work with,never mind a poopy BL.
Time for another band.
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amen to that , we used to have a great female singer, her problem was she would stick around after rehearsal and expect me to talk her up all the time , which i never did, if she had a good night , I would let her know, I told the other guys about it , but they seemed content to have me babysit the diva. well one night we finished up, mediocre night nothing great , in fact she forgot lyrics to some of the songs, she was again fishing for compliments, I had enough. told her that under no uncertain terms was I going to sit around and tickle her butt about how great her perfomance was when at best it was passable, told her I didnt think this was working out and fired her . Now our band is a democracy when it comes to the music and performance , but I had enough, the other guys didnt want to make the decision , i finally did. no one was terribly upset other than the drummer who got to stare at her ass all night , no shapely bottom is worth a divas attitude
 
#47
I am mostly concerned with being treated with respect, I really don't mind doing a little extra work for the greater good , everyone has something of value they can add to a group, but like you all have said , I am being taking advantage of . I spoke with the BL and after a few remarkable stupid rebuttals on his part ( and he is a very smart guy ) we decided that we will play this weekend with business as usual and then try to work something out , the problem is I know him and this is his way of keeping me at bay until it blows over. Unfortunately for him and maybe me I am not going to let this blow over . I do have some concerns over the fact that a lot of the PA is mine, not the big stuff , but stuff that makes it work. mic, cables, power strips, extension cords and so on, I am trying to get him to buy them because after 2 years they have take a beating, but I may just have to take them and look at the horrible mess my equipment is in as a reminder . Not everyone plays fair ! Believe me guys I'm not an angle. I have done my fair share of unprofessional things on stage that I am ashamed of.
One more thing to ponder:
We didn't have a PA when we started, the BL purchased most of the PA and divided the cost into 4, each of us paid our share of the PA.then we find out after its paid that , we don't owned a share in the PA the BL ownes it. None of the other members complained and I know if I did it would have been a mess. It is certainly easier for one member to own the PA, but we bought him a PA and he acts like he did us a favor because he didn't change us for the interest he had to pay or the ( get this ) the depreciation on the PA!!!
This is how is was explained !
I paid $5000 for the PA if I was to sell it I would only get $2500 for it at best so I am out $2500+$5000 so I should charge you $7500 plus the 21% interest I have to pay on my CC!!!!
OMG!!! I wanted to punch him in the face but I said , bite your tongue, I will do you no good!!!
Believe me guys, I understand that money can never be the prime motivation for getting into a cover band , but I am sure this type of practice is not standard, it can't be !!!

My only saving grace is I owe the BL some money and it just so happens to be the same amount I gave him for the PA ! So we are square ! He just don't know it!

Yet!!!!
 
#48
If you paid a share of the PA, you co-own the PA. Yes, you have a right to know what the band is getting paid. I don't have a problem with the 20% cut if he's paying taxes on it, but you should know what the 20% is. No, it shouldn't be your job to set up the PA by yourself.

If you have anywhere near decent communication, call a band meeting and lay out those stipulations. If the BL won't agree to them, walk. But give him a chance to make good first.

A dictatorship can be a good thing in a band, as long as it's a benevolent dictatorship. Good luck.
 
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#49
Doley50 said:
plus the 21% interest I have to pay on my CC
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Well, I am never the smartest guy in the room, and CERTAINLY not about money! but I submit to you that any azzhat who works with a credit card that charges 21%...and buys thousands of dollars worth of band equipment with it...is not an azzhat that I would choose to hang with. The news that he was paying 21% on a credit card, which is commonly known as 'usury', had to indicate that your bl has made some serious financial miscalculations in his past. Those are the kinds of cards created to take advantage of dolts who have no idea how credit cards work! And then he put a $7,500 PA for a COVER BAND on it!!?? Jumpn' Jesus On A Bicycle!!! Easy for me to say, but I might leave the cables and extension cords behind...take any decent mics you own...and explain the way you see the money situation. Once. Then turn around and walk away. I really am sorry for your situation. Every time a band breaks up or a long-time member leaves it will be hurtful...but it sure sounds to me like you deserve a better buncha mates. Best of luck. I hope you find a band that deserves you! :thumbsup:
 
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#50
Doley50 said:
We didn't have a PA when we started, the BL purchased most of the PA and divided the cost into 4, each of us paid our share of the PA.then we find out after its paid that , we don't owned a share in the PA the BL ownes it. None of the other members complained and I know if I did it would have been a mess. It is certainly easier for one member to own the PA, but we bought him a PA and he acts like he did us a favor because he didn't change us for the interest he had to pay or the ( get this ) the depreciation on the PA!!!
This is how is was explained !
I paid $5000 for the PA if I was to sell it I would only get $2500 for it at best so I am out $2500+$5000 so I should charge you $7500 plus the 21% interest I have to pay on my CC!!!!
Click to expand...
This makes no sense at all. The BL is screwing with you. Here's what happened:

1. You apparently made a $5000 gift to the BL, as did the other band members. Too bad.
2. The BL apparently borrowed $5000 on his credit card. That's none of your business. It's his problem.
3. The BL gained value from the PA system because he used it for gigs. That's his compensation for his contribution to the PA fund.
4. The BL mis-understands depreciation.

Here's what I think should happen:

1. You return the PA to the BL after the gig, and later on tell him that you won't be in the band any more.
2. If they think that you owe them anything, let them prove it. If the expenses are for things that the BL and the other band members will benefit from going forward, then they should pay for them, or you could pay for the fraction that you "used" during your time in the band, if you felt generous.
3. They can continue to use gig proceeds to pay off the remainder of the PA, if there are any debts associated with it.

You basically got hornswaggled, and there is no way to make it better by prolonging it. Look up the concept of "sunk cost." The BL is an expert manipulator, will claim to be doing you a favor, then make you feel guilty or dishonest, then use your guilt as a reason why you owe him money. This is known as "reciprocity," and it is a common manipulation / negotiation technique.

You can see that he expects the band members to cover all of his costs, without offering anything in return. It's completely a one way relationship. A money pit.

Is this how bands are usually run? Yes and no. I don't play in a rock band, so my assessment is based on reading lots of TB threads. But here goes:

1. Most bands that need "shared" gear such as a PA, are a money pit. But so are most hobbies.
2. Most bands have no written or even clear agreement on how the band's expenses will be managed.
3. There is often someone in a band who is a better negotiator / manipulator, and sets themselves up so that they can profit from the band while nobody else does.
4. When the band breaks up, it will be a complete crap shoot as to who owns and owes what.

Is this how bands should be run? In my opinion, it's reasonable to expect that playing in a band will involve some costs that you will never get back, and may involve paying for gear that someone else gets to keep. The question is: How much money are you willing to spend, and how do you get to say yes or no to an expense? A universal business rule is that the accountant never has the authority to sign checks.
 
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#51
bassman4d521 said:
Lots of financial irregularities going on - any one of which would make me walk.
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This! OP, you really might want to make sure that you have all of your financial records from playing with this band in order before leaving. If the BL is handling his business finances in as shady a fashion as you are being treated then it's highly likely that an IRS audit is in his future, and it's possible that he will try to falsify his ledgers and claim he paid you more than he did.
 
#55
20db pad said:
Anybody suggesting that a female vocalist should be moving her own gear obviously hasn't spent much time performing with one.
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I perform with female vocalists who are happy to help schlep gear. Three of them have been bandleaders who owned, transported, and set up the PA systems for their gigs. Those who don't own gear tend to pitch in anyway.
 
#60
fdeck said:
2. Most bands have no written or even clear agreement on how the band's expenses will be managed.
Click to expand...
This is something I simply cannot understand, especially in a country like the US, where the IRS seems to loom large, and so many bands mentioned on TB are made up of lawyers, accountants and dentists.

When I joined my first serious band, age 17, we had a band contract. My dad had to witness my signature because I was under age. It's the safest way to work.

As Sam Goldwyn is reported to have said; " A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on!"
 

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