Tips on jamming with an experienced drummer

[Tom Bomb]

Turn it on, any old how

Do some dreaming, planning, talking. Then dive in. Once you're in, flesh out the grooves. Start building a repertoire. Polish. Be open. Communicate. Don't be afraid to ask questions. Flesh everything out. Look for direction, any old how.

Get your cues from what's there already. Expand on that — bring in ideas that could add to the music you're already making, any old how: styles, riffs, you're both into; anything that lends something to the jam, makes it more interesting; ideas, from left field, or otherwise, other avenues, not too complex initially; anything that might work. Start off on the right foot. Be inventive. Be friendly. Be positive. Have fun.

You're blessed to have a willing co-conspirator, and one with some chops Hope it works out.

I know I will get there at some point, but I'm kind of stumped.

 

[HardNHeavy]

just start playing....anything......you start feeding off each other after a while..Jam on some riffs you already know, doesn't matter what it is-covers/originals...Just get to know each others style a bit.

 

[bigdaddybass12]

1. dont tell him he is jerk.
2. Play with the band, not just him. This will help avoid any talking down from him.
3. Start easy, whole notes, quarter notes or 1/8th notes for a few measures until you feel a groove.. (some will discourage this)
4. Watch his kick. Play with his kick.
Dont necessarily watch him, Watch the guitarist, his movement will show you the downbeats.

 

[SteveCS]

1. dont tell him he is jerk.
2. Play with the band, not just him. This will help avoid any talking down from him.
3. Start easy, whole notes, quarter notes or 1/8th notes for a few measures until you feel a groove.. (some will discourage this)
4. Watch his kick. Play with his kick.
Dont necessarily watch him, Watch the guitarist, his movement will show you the downbeats.

OP doesn't have a band, or even a guitarist, to offer cues or hooks, at least not yet.

But with all the good advice flowing in it should just be a matter of time.

 

[AceOfBassFace]

Learn some classic bass riffs and go from there.

 

[carlosjrf]

1. dont tell him he is jerk.
2. Play with the band, not just him. This will help avoid any talking down from him.
3. Start easy, whole notes, quarter notes or 1/8th notes for a few measures until you feel a groove.. (some will discourage this)
4. Watch his kick. Play with his kick.
Dont necessarily watch him, Watch the guitarist, his movement will show you the downbeats.

Well, I didnt mean it literally. No band, just me and him. The issue is he wants me to start a groove for him to follow rather than him setting it, but maybe I can start with something very simple notes as you said, see where he goes and build from that. If i can come up with something.

 

[juggahnaught]

Great stuff. I actually printed your reply to use it and build a plan from it. Thanks very much.

That's awesome, I hope it helps. It's always worth remembering (not just for you, but for all bassists) that drummers don't just "pound out rhythms" - they are musicians, and like all musicians, they're looking for cues just like we are. We as bassists are the bridge between the percussion and the harmony; it falls on us to establish both rhythm and harmony, and as such it falls on us to cue the rhythm section and the other harmonic sections as well. In a jam session, you can play as simple or as complex as you want as long as you remember this fact. When you set up a good jam, the drummer will be able to express himself (or herself) within that jam as well; they'll be able to fill at appropriate times, lead dynamic changes, and more. But when the bassist doesn't build that bridge properly (especially with just bass and drums in a jam) the drummer has no direction, no context in which to work. (In these situations, some drummers overplay - trying to create a cue - and some underplay, waiting for a cue that never comes. Both the drummer and the bassist walk away unsatisfied.)

I think that all bassists should play drums to better understand that relationship. Drummers aren't just machines. The best jams allow musicians to be mutually expressive, and this includes drummers.

One thing I forgot to mention, @carlosjrf - make sure you're always listening. You'll be cueing the drummer through your changes, but he'll also be cueing you - and as you advance on your instrument, you'll start to be able to easily respond to his cues with countercues, creating a real musical conversation. The more you play with this drummer, the more you'll get to know him and his tendencies. This type of musical communication is what will really make you grow as a musician.

Good luck dude! Makes me excited just thinking about it. Hope that your next session is fruitful.

 

[Lobster11]

Well, I didnt mean it literally. No band, just me and him. The issue is he wants me to start a groove for him to follow rather than him setting it, but maybe I can start with something very simple notes as you said, see where he goes and build from that. If i can come up with something.

I never thought that you meant the "he's a jerk" thing literally, but it does seem that you think he should be the one to start something -- either because he's the drummer (and you're the bass player), or because he's more experienced. Personally, I don't think either of those is true. I think it's a mistake to think of the drummer as THE timekeeper whom everyone else (including the bassist) follows; I think everyone in the band is equally responsible for time-keeping, and the drummer should adjust to everyone else as much as vice-versa. I also think that because it is more difficult to respond to what someone else is playing than to just play something, it makes sense for the more experienced player to take the role of "responder." It might help if you abandon the idea that it's his responsibility to start something, and just enjoy the freedom you have in being the "starter."

 

[Papageno]

There is something I don't get:

How could a 15-years-experienced drummer possibly know nobody playing any instrument?
What kind of experience does he have then? Playing drums in his bedroom for 15 years?

Or maybe he is new in town and does not know yet other musicians there...

All suggestions given above are excellent.

 

[fhm555]

Well, then just start playing a random root-fifth-octave groove and let him join in; you can create an infinite number of grooves from just those notes, or just any one or two of them. Or, just start playing the bass line from a song that you know. Or just bang on the bass, or whack the strings with whatever object is within reach, or make some other kind of noise that he can respond to. You can play pretty much any notes you want. The fun in jamming with just a drummer is in the rhythm: locking into a groove together, and taking turns toying with the groove.

I spent about a year at least a couple times a week jamming with a drummer. He was experienced and I was green as grass. We started with simple twelve bar stuff and variations of that. He’d count it in, so I knew were the one was so I’d come up with something that worked with whatever he started. When I’d get comfortable, he’d change up and I’d have to follow him. It was train wreckish at first but after a couple weeks it started coming together and before long we were trading off setting the groove and working the same lines in different keys and anything else we could come up with, but locking with a drummer was the big takeaway for me.

 

[Lobster11]

I spent about a year at least a couple times a week jamming with a drummer. He was experienced and I was green as grass. We started with simple twelve bar stuff and variations of that. He’d count it in, so I knew were the one was so I’d come up with something that worked with whatever he started. When I’d get comfortable, he’d change up and I’d have to follow him. It was train wreckish at first but after a couple weeks it started coming together and before long we were trading off setting the groove and working the same lines in different keys and anything else we could come up with, but locking with a drummer was the big takeaway for me.

Amen. So, some advice for OP:

1. There will be lots of train wrecks, especially in the beginning. And that's fine. Think of these as opportunities to figure out how to recover from train wrecks, which I think of as a very important skill.

2. Be patient. It's going to take take some time to work things out between you.

3. Record your sessions. Much of it will be painful to listen to, but you'll get all kinds of ideas about how to do things differently next time.

4. If you play (and record) for two hours, and the recording includes 10 total minutes of stuff you'd be willing or proud to share with a friend, you're doing it right.

 

[George Dennis]

Well, I didnt mean it literally. No band, just me and him. The issue is he wants me to start a groove for him to follow rather than him setting it, but maybe I can start with something very simple notes as you said, see where he goes and build from that. If i can come up with something.

I'm loving this discussion and had an example the other day where only me, the drummer and singer could make reheasal but we went ahead anyway.
We started with a jam by just getting the drummer to play simple 4:4 beat on the high-hat and soon enough we were away.
My bass lines were very simple and I was using it as an exercise to "lock in" on Bootsy's ONE with the kick drum (as mentioned earlier).
I really enjoyed the session and appreciated how tight the two of us had become without ever focussing on it.
Best of luck - definitely worth the effort in my opinion.
My suggestion for your next session is to just ask him to start by tapping out that 4:4 beat on his high hat. Start counting 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & as he does this, let him go for a couple of bars and be there on the 1 with the same note you'll use on the 1 after that etc and let it build from there until you choose another chord tone for the 1 etc etc
Most importantly, remember it's called "PLAY-ing" so have fun grooving together!

 

[Topkat13]

Have fun.

 

[carlosjrf]

I never thought that you meant the "he's a jerk" thing literally, but it does seem that you think he should be the one to start something -- either because he's the drummer (and you're the bass player), or because he's more experienced. Personally, I don't think either of those is true. I think it's a mistake to think of the drummer as THE timekeeper whom everyone else (including the bassist) follows; I think everyone in the band is equally responsible for time-keeping, and the drummer should adjust to everyone else as much as vice-versa. I also think that because it is more difficult to respond to what someone else is playing than to just play something, it makes sense for the more experienced player to take the role of "responder." It might help if you abandon the idea that it's his responsibility to start something, and just enjoy the freedom you have in being the "starter."

I dont think its his responsibility. I though with my inexperience was to follow his groove, listen to the kick and follow it. He wants to follow me to practice doing it, which i understand.

 

[carlosjrf]

I spent about a year at least a couple times a week jamming with a drummer. He was experienced and I was green as grass. We started with simple twelve bar stuff and variations of that. He’d count it in, so I knew were the one was so I’d come up with something that worked with whatever he started. When I’d get comfortable, he’d change up and I’d have to follow him. It was train wreckish at first but after a couple weeks it started coming together and before long we were trading off setting the groove and working the same lines in different keys and anything else we could come up with, but locking with a drummer was the big takeaway for me.

This is what I would ideally want. I guess it will just take time for us to work it out. Good stuff.

 

[carlosjrf]

There is something I don't get:

How could a 15-years-experienced drummer possibly know nobody playing any instrument?
What kind of experience does he have then? Playing drums in his bedroom for 15 years?

Or maybe he is new in town and does not know yet other musicians there...

All suggestions given above are excellent.

He played in bands in college and used to record drums for other people. He doesnt play as much any more and moved to the area for work. JUst trying to keep up his playing and having fun.

 

[Element Zero]

Just saying that anyone can say they’ve been playing for “x” amount of time… doesn’t mean they’re any good. Many years ago when I worked at Guitar Center I met many “musicians” who had played for longer than I had been alive at the time and… well… were TERRIBLE.

 

[carlosjrf]

I'm loving this discussion and had an example the other day where only me, the drummer and singer could make reheasal but we went ahead anyway.
We started with a jam by just getting the drummer to play simple 4:4 beat on the high-hat and soon enough we were away.
My bass lines were very simple and I was using it as an exercise to "lock in" on Bootsy's ONE with the kick drum (as mentioned earlier).
I really enjoyed the session and appreciated how tight the two of us had become without ever focussing on it.
Best of luck - definitely worth the effort in my opinion.
My suggestion for your next session is to just ask him to start by tapping out that 4:4 beat on his high hat. Start counting 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & as he does this, let him go for a couple of bars and be there on the 1 with the same note you'll use on the 1 after that etc and let it build from there until you choose another chord tone for the 1 etc etc
Most importantly, remember it's called "PLAY-ing" so have fun grooving together!

Awesome. Yes just trying to have fun, but also pushing myself a bit. I'm trying to do my part to make it more enjoyable musically. Now that i remember, we actually had a good 2 minutes where it sound cool and he did his thing. So its going somewhere.

 

[carlosjrf]

Amen. So, some advice for OP:

1. There will be lots of train wrecks, especially in the beginning. And that's fine. Think of these as opportunities to figure out how to recover from train wrecks, which I think of as a very important skill.

2. Be patient. It's going to take take some time to work things out between you.

3. Record your sessions. Much of it will be painful to listen to, but you'll get all kinds of ideas about how to do things differently next time.

4. If you play (and record) for two hours, and the recording includes 10 total minutes of stuff you'd be willing or proud to share with a friend, you're doing it right.

Im actually thinking about what to do to record the session, but not sure how to go about it.

 

[Ric5]

I'm still fairly new to bass, so I'm working on my chops to be able to come up with basslines and have fun jamming. Met a drummer thru a friend, and he invited me to jam. After insisting for a couple of months, I finally got the courage to do it. Got there thinking I was going to follow his lead since he's been playing for 15 years, but somehow he was expecting me to start playing like I can just play whatever. I know I will get there at some point, but I'm kind of stumped. We both are in the same situation as I dont know any other drummers and he doesnt know anyone else who plays any instrument.
Do i just tell him to stop been a jerk and lead me into the rhythm and see if for some miracle I can play something decent?

a good way to learn is to play with musicians who are better than you.