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To ALL working bass players...

#301
For the record...

I don't believe a $50 gig/market is going to affect those who are making bucks in the $300 - $3000 dollar gigs per person/band niche. What it does do IMO... Is confuse people into thinking there is no difference between the different levels on the semi pro scene (Because they are indifferent anyway if you aren't a big name). Also, the general punter starts equating the live music experience with banality and background noise (Not always), while they look at the screen in their local sports bar and periodically glance over at the bodies writhing on the stage.
For example, in London, there's a bar called Pizza express, and I always found it sad that when I was there looking at Patittucci and Pat Martino playing, some folks were there because of intellectual snobbery, or being cool by association, with no concern for the music (Just carryover from happy hour). Ultimately being served pizza a foot or two from legends, and some peeps... Being rude only seeking to become part of the show (The dude who yelled at Patittucci, "Why don't you pray for us John!").
I saw McBride's father Lee in Philly at Chris's and the audience were louder than the band (I was 1 foot from the stage). So, my action regarding the topic of this thread is, if I don't take the gig, then someone else can have it at whatever price. I have the choice to stay home, or promote my own show and accept the risks involved. I agree with Mongo and others, but the tone invoked via the net can be misconstrued as ... Whatever.
 
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#303
I have worked with a local (I live in a big city) pro musician - at those gigs, I was FOH (volunteer), he was bandleader and keyboardist (paid). He also plays bass - he does that so he has more flexibility in getting gigs. I asked him about how many places he plays - he's all over the place, playing with different bands, for different churches, etc. He shared with me that, the year prior he had 62 W2's - he had been paid by 62 different clubs, churches, people, bands, etc. Not once have I ever heard him complain about people (like me) that play music or do production for free. He makes his living at music because:

1) He's very good at what he does. He works at it - it's obvious if you pay attention around him
2) He networks all the time - he has a lot of good musicians that he can call, and that call him for gigs. If he's the bandleader, there will not be a second rate musician on stage - ever.
3) He doesn't limit himself to one band, one venue, one genre, or even one instrument - he does what he has to to be useful in as many places and to as many people as possible.
4) Although he's particular about certain things (he's demanding of musicians he works with/subhires for a gig), he's mostly very easy to work with.

Yes, trying to play certain music in certain places is tough nowadays, but if you really want to make a business out of playing music, you can. You just have to work at it.
 
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#304
JGbassman said:
I'm suprised you aren't making more playing in Iowa. I've played all over the state and make 2-3 times that amount as a bare minimum, and I feel I'm at the low point of the pay scale with one cover band I work with. The other is a semi pro and makes bank working 120 minutes tops. The money is out there, especially in the Midwest. It's not like it was, but you can still pull in some good money working Thursday-Sunday if you look for it.
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We're kind of a niche thing (piano bass drums, standards) and fairly new. We get 300 a night split 4 ways at our main gig, room holds about 100 and we generally fill it. I'm in Waterloo/Cedar falls, and there just aren't the venues here. Even the two music focused bars are only doing live music 3-4 nights a week. One of them mostly hosts local original bands, and I'm pretty sure doesn't play jack (I know him and he's not exactly turning a profit on them either, but wants to support a scene). The other does bring in touring acts (mostly bands that were 2nd tier Nu Metal 15 year ago in their prime) and does do hard rock cover bands that are likely to pay pretty well. There are quite a few place that do occasional nights, but most don't really have the infrastructure (no PA/Stage, etc). One guy I know actually has 2 configurations of his group, one full band, one 2 singers with guitars, to be more flexible. Cedar Rapids/Des Moines/Iowa city are probably a different story, but we aren't really in a position to travel a whole lot. I've got a friend who sings with the one big local event wedding band, an apparently back here in the 70s and 80s, she was playing 5-6 nights a week and turning people away, but she's hustling the same gigs we are at this point. Where there does seem to be some money is in the county fair/town festival market. I was talking to a guy a while back who was trying to put together something to cash in on that (classic rock/bro country mix) but it didn't fit with my other obligations very well.
 
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#307
Hi Pbassmanca :)

Finally this thread makes sense!!!! :hyper::hyper::hyper:

Pbassmanca said:
I find me some andouille sausage I'm going to make it!
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One of my favs! To check on the barbecue!

(Let them sausages sit in a red wine marinade for an hour before grilling! drooldrooldrool

Oh I forgot! :D

You can 't afford red wine (in Canada"*") when you play for 50$ per gig! :roflmao:

Lousy times for folks who love good food.


greetings


Wise(b)ass

edit to add: "*"
and: * I live where the good stuff comes from! :wacky::wacky::wacky:
 
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#309
DrayMiles said:
We don't have to be on the same page, but we have to consider the fine print... Your demeanor leads me to believe you don't play much jazz do you? You come across as a "Dirty Deeds, Done Dirt Cheap" Kinda person! :) (Just teasing again! ;) )

Then again, Jazz peeps want to know what's on your mind. :) So, if you do play Jazz, I'm going to that gig fo' sho!
Click to expand...

"Tune??? This is JAZZ!" :D
 
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#315
I gave up on page three reading sorry messages from people who aren't making as much money playing music as they think they are worth. This is addressed to anyone who believes that. Okay? Wishing to be of assistance, I will try one more time to enlighten those who think the world, or for that matter the music business owe's them a living. No, it does not. Nobody owe's you anything. You are worth just exactly what someone is willing to pay you for whatever you do, same as everybody else in this world. There is no "fair" value for what you or anybody else does. Your living expenses or how skillful a musician you may be or how long you studied to be able to do whatever you do means exactly nothing relative to what you may be able to charge for your services. Unless, that is, you live in a communist country in which case the government will tell you what to do and how much you are to be paid for your trouble. Or else!

Of course, in a capitalist country the Robber Barron's get the government to legislate their privileged position in life. And they would have us pay them for the privilege of working, if they could. Is that fair? No, but that's the way it is. Nothing is stopping you from forming a union of fellow musicians and setting a base wage below which you will not work. Good luck with that. You could always picket the places of employment you wish to work at or otherwise attempt to disrupt the work situation you think is unfair in order to try and coerce the money you desire from your would be employers. Good luck with that, too. The complaining I'm reading here on talk bass is not the same thing as coal miners fighting and dying attempting to get out from under the company store. Most of them had no choice but to work in the coal mine.

If someone wants to play out for less money or pay than you, that's their right. You actually expect others to forego doing something they want to do just so you can make the money you believe you are worth? If that isn't the acme of arrogance, I don't know what is. If you were really as good as you think you are, wouldn't you already be making the kind of money you want? Alternatively, there is such a thing as market analysis. Is there really a market for what you do such that if it wasn't for the people who are supposedly under cutting you, you could earn the kind of money you think you deserve? Does that even make sense? Not to me it doesn't.

A few years ago a young guy who worked as a bager at a supermarket I often patronize told me he was starting a band. My advise to him was get out there and play every chance you get. Don't worry about the money. Worry about how good you are as musicians. Give your audience a reason to want to show up and see you play again. I told him if you continue doing this faithfully and practice your tails off with a little luck you will build up a following. Eventually, if you get good enough people will start inviting you to play for them and be willing to pay you something for your trouble. I then told him that the more people you can reliably draw, the more money you will be offered for your performances. All this sage advice occurred over a period of let's say a year or two. After a while his band began to play out regularly and to make a long story short, they made it to the Hard Rock Cafe. They made a (self-produced) CD and sold merch. The most amazing thing is this is an amplified jazz fusion sort of group with no vocals! All instrumentals!

The young guy I am talking about was asked to play in a cover band and the last I heard from him he was making $125 a night on those gigs in a five peace band, three 45 minute sets. He can potentially make a lot more than that. He's having a blast playing music and is mystified at his good fortune. Will he ever be able to quit his day job and become a highly paid sideman or a music business icon? I don't know. He hugs me every time he sees me and is brimming with gratitude that somebody took the time to pay attention to him and try to help him out. It's no mystery to me what happened. He and his comrades worked hard. That's all. I don't remember him ever saying he wasn't getting paid what he thinks he is worth.

So what was this young man supposed to do? Stay home because somebody else thinks they deserve the slot he carved out for himself more than he does? He's only supposed to play at the gigs approved by his self-possessed albeit more experienced peers because they think if it wasn't for him, they would be further along on the path? Well, you know what? Weed is legal here in Nevada now. But legal or not, I think somebody is smoking a little too much of it if they believe that. Good grief!
 
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#316
^ :thumbsup:
I've attempted to not comment on this thread as it would get political too easily. Anyways reminds me of a friend of mine that got a degree in English Lit and delivered pizza for a couple years afterwards until he got into the computer support biz. He never had the delusion that that degree would make for a good paying career LOL.

99.9999% of youse guys are gonna need a good day job or family money. One of my bands one of the sax players just graduated from high school and is leaving us to go to Berklee - very talented player. But what are the chances he can ever be a full-time musician? OTOH I think his family does have $$$ so good luck for him :) .

BTW just had a chance to watch "Hired Gun" on Netflix - highly recommended :cool:.
 
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