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Discussion in 'Miscellaneous [BG]' started by soong, Jul 10, 2018.
if the band you're in is reasonably successful you will have a lot more leverage when discussing pay. it's up to the band to get to the point that they can be considered reasonably successful. if you're a band nobody has ever heard of but thinks it should be making good $$, you're going to be disappointed.
I don't have a gripe about anything. I'm just pointing out that using backdoor tactics to introduce one's religion into conversations is a bit tacky. Feel free to proceed. I'm not trying to stop anyone from doing it, just expressing my opinion about it.
Thanks for the reply, I’m glad you explained that viewpoint to me. Much appreciated...
I'm suprised you aren't making more playing in Iowa. I've played all over the state and make 2-3 times that amount as a bare minimum, and I feel I'm at the low point of the pay scale with one cover band I work with. The other is a semi pro and makes bank working 120 minutes tops. The money is out there, especially in the Midwest. It's not like it was, but you can still pull in some good money working Thursday-Sunday if you look for it.
Here's my take on the original discussion: Don't be afraid to put in the work to get people to your show, collecting phone numbers, email, starting a list, giving things away, creating a following, asking for shares, etc... Everyone can be their own manager and promoter. Not to mention a million other income streams for musicians now with the internet.
I was professional DJ for about five years in my early 20's, went on to live sound production, recording albums for bands and ultimately renting PA equipment. Musician-wise though, I've only done one paying gig and it was for exactly $50 at a divey bar South of Seattle. I got a kick out of it and was super nervous beforehand. I loved it and I would have done it for free.
My point is this: its fun! I'd play an NBA game for one night for only $50. I'd even pay for my own flight to get there. But I suck at basketball compared to anyone out there so there's no way I'd be hired. If the club or bar owner feels the same about you then you either need to work on that or work on getting your own audience there.
I’m cool with that. But let me add that the original post was basically accusing me of cutting into his income, which is a major whopper. I was just explaining why in the world I would play music without direct compensation. My apologies if I offended you or anybody else for that matter. BTW, there is a difference between faith, and religion.
I've seen Instagram for years. Most anyone can take a decent photograph. Just like any person with a modicum of skill can play Mustang Sally. That's why live music can be so cheap.
Why add that last sentence? Not necessary.
Just stop it already.
We don't need a self-appointed mod. Clear enough?
Who is we?
And why the hostility? Not necessary.
Just saw this and you're 100% right. There are the same sort of venues in my area that book metal bands, they would NEVER book working cover bands.
From the posting rules: "Politics and religious debate/discussion are not allowed in any forum unless specifically allowed by the forum's posted rules ("sticky" threads)."
I haven’t read all of this thread, but I read enough I believe.. if I’m repeating something someone else said, I apologize.
I think it’s sad this thread devolved into name calling, and I really hope that a lot of what was said denegrating both hobbiests and professionals was more in anger & not really how members, musicians of this forum really feel.
I think the whole thing comes down to COMMON SENSE:
If you are a young band, a hobby band, or an original band looking to play out and you play a showcase at a local venue (or nonlocal) and you don’t get paid or get paid very little, I understand that. Been there, done that. Try to get your worth, but if this is one of the few places to play, you do what you must.
The problem comes when you know a venue pays for musical acts, and you try to get in by intentionally undercutting the current acts working there. That, or when you approach a venue about creating a working situation, and deeply undercut what the local average is for paid entertainment in that size & type of venue.
(An example: soloists in my area have been getting vexed by a agent placing 2 musicians, a duo, in places and charging what is normally the cost for a solo act. This IS the problem I believe this thread is about. These and other venues paying attention now expect if they get 2 or 3 musicians for said price, then they should only have to pay a soloist 1/2 of what they had been. Carry that exponentially forward - a thoughtless act has effectively created a situation that loses money for everyone down the line.)
These clubs will and do pay attention, and will do anything to save a few bux on entertainment, no matter how profitable their club is.
It just comes down to courtesy & common sense (like a lot of things).
I will never hold it against a band for doing what they have to to get a start, get exposure, or just have fun.
In the same light, I’d like to think those bands respect that I make my living playing music, and wouldn’t intentionally enter a venue known to hire emtertainment and offer to play for free, or intentionally devalue the value that music holds for venues.
It just comes down to being aware of the venue & the situation.
We all love playing music, and should respect and encourage each other no matter what level we play at, why we play, or what style we play. C’mon... the more music the better...
Who takes up any hobby with the intent of furthering the livelihood of those who decide to take the same trade as their primary profession? I don't spend hours shedding because I think there's a chance I'm going to augment someone's musical career. I play because I love it. I work a day job because I need the money. Being a musician is hard work, but it's not necessarily lucrative. If I can get paid and fed for doing my passion, I'm going to do it without any thought given to the guy that will be looking for his next high paying gig while I'm clocked in for a regular work day in the morning.
You called me out for being wrong and you claimed that there are professional photographers complaining about losing work. Nowhere in your rebuttal did you give examples of professional photographers complaining about losing work. You only gave examples of people that you know lamenting their bad choices.
I used to be a bit of a hobbyist with woodworking. I decided one day to make a pair of sub cabs for our band's PA system. They turned out great and they rocked!
Did I take away potential earnings from sub cab manufacturers? I sure did!
Do I care? I sure don't!
Are those businesses still thriving? They sure are!