To ALL working bass players...

[wmhill]

I agree with most of this except the killing the industry part.

It’s already dead

I don't know if it's completely dead yet, but the buzzards are definitely circling

 

[Rip Van Dan]

I absolutely refuse to blame my fellow musicians for a problem that is not of their creation. That's straight-up "blaming the victim".

Venue owners and agents have driven the price down to the point where you can't do this as your only source of income. That's not on players. That was a deliberate decision on the part of those who run those businesses. Guys are taking fifty and a cheap meal because fifty and a cheap meal is the best most can get.

Was just telling my father yesterday that back in 1987, I was booked five nights a week every week for months on end and the lowest-paying of those gigs paid more than all but the very best paying do now. I didn't have to have a day job, or welfare, and could afford a nice apartment in a nice part of town with 75% of my salary left over afterwards. Nobody gets to do that anymore, but it's not the fault of the players that things are as bad as they are today.

It was also like that in the early 70's. I was working 5-nights a week, 50-weeks a year for 3-years. When we found out my wife was pregnant, I managed to save up enough $$ before our daughter was born to pay cash for the Dr. and Hospital bills...then along came disco and that almost killed the live music scene.

As that old Nilsson Schmilson tune goes...Long ago, far away...

 

[soulman969]

Your criticism is self-serving. You speak of freedom, then why are some here trying to restrict the freedom of others who wish to play under whatever pay or non-pay circumstances they choose?

What....are you still arguing over this?

No one is restricting your freedom to do as you please. I already commented on that and all you could muster was a snarky comeback. Commenting on how your "freedom" to do as you please does impact others is my right and in no way restricts you from doing as you please. You spoke your piece and I spoke mine.

Now, you're trampling on my lawn. I'm a grumpy old grouch so excuse me while I just remove you.

 

[Wanker_Joe]

Why do some of you guys have such a "screw you" reply to the thought s of the OP? To those of us who have done this professionally or semi pro, the points are valid. But, is it necessary to "puff yourselves up" by saying basically, "screw you, I'll play for nothing if I feel like it." It just seems that the sheen/facade of bass camaraderie
is smeared with that type of reply. I can only hope your playing skills warrant such testosterone driven drivel.
A little consideration, despite anonymity via the internet, wouldn't be out of order.

I think many take issue with OP because it reeks of the worst kind of gatekeeping. Frankly in my locale there really aren't any gig offers pouring in that pay more than 50 bucks when you are a bush league player like myself. If I turn them down I become "that band that doesn't take any gigs", but now if I accept them I'm somehow hurting my local scene? Worst still, that assertion is completely untrue. My band has brokered a good number of multi-band bills that has brought together very disparate musicians because our own style isn't easily classifiable. We've helped grow our scene. We continue to do so. Had I turned down the gigs that were offered those opportunities to network and form relationships with other bands and venue owners would never have materialized.

However, you aren't wrong. A little compassion can go a long way; I totally see where OP is coming from. In the end we should all be united by our love of the bass and of music, at least on some level.

(Full disclosure: I don't have the skills to back up anything...)

 

[Medicine Man]

How much your band will play for is a business decision for your band. If you want to sell premium entertainment at a premium price, that can be a successful business model. If you want to play for cheap to undercut your competition, it doesn't make you a jerk who is ruining music. It is just a different model. I work in a saturated market where a bunch of us compete against, pros, dad bands, DJ, bar trivia of whatever else. I can justify my higher price with the entertainment we bring, so I get gigs regardless. Many venues would rather pay us more money for a better product than hire some cheaper act, but some won't. Does it suck that high paying gigs don't fall from trees these days? Sure. But bands have to make their own decisions about pricing structure for what works for them. If anyone's act is getting undercut, either lower your cost or justify your higher price, and gigs will come. If it's not worth it to you, don't take that gig. I also highly suggest a day job.

 

[DJCalamari]

I absolutely refuse to blame my fellow musicians for a problem that is not of their creation. That's straight-up "blaming the victim".

This x1000. I work in an industry that uses a lot of unpaid interns, but I can't blame the kids trying to get college credit or a leg up; I blame the companies that are exploiting them for free labor.

If the guy down the street is selling cheaper widgets than you, you either lower the price or make better widgets.

 

[Josh Gone]

How often do bass players, or any musicians, discuss what the going rate is? For me? ZERO times. I asked a jazz guy I was studying with.
Where I live it's pretty much $25 an hour per musician. Maybe the better players get paid better, I don't know... it isn't discussed. But I'm playing the same club as the jazz guy that was teaching me.
Lots of gigs pay $150 cash, so we play them as a duo. If they want a drummer next time, the price just went up.

 

[MobileHolmes]

I think one issue I keep seeing here is people conflating value and skill. To your typical venue, pretty much the only thing that matters is draw (and perhaps not being jerks to work with). You bring in paying customers, you are good. You don't, you're not. Certainly not how I would like to think about music, but the reality of the situation if you are getting paid. And the reality of the competition as well. If you aren't bringing in more revenue than a DJ/Trivia Night/the Jukebox/etc. it doesn't matter how good you are

 

[socialleper]

I think this bares repeating:

COVER BANDS\HIRED GUNS DO NOT LIVE IN THE SAME UNIVERSE AS ORIGINAL ARTISTS.

 

[Tony In Philly]

Here we go again...another thread about how part-time musicians are killing the scene for full-time musicians. I just don't buy it. If I choose to work a straight job during the week and work as a musician during the weekends, that has no bearing on what the full-time musician can do with his time. For example, he has Monday through Thursday to chase down gigs that I can't do.

 

[mongo2]

What....are you still arguing over this?

No one is restricting your freedom to do as you please. I already commented on that and all you could muster was a snarky comeback. Commenting on how your "freedom" to do as you please does impact others is my right and in no way restricts you from doing as you please. You spoke your piece and I spoke mine.

Now, you're trampling on my lawn. I'm a grumpy old grouch so excuse me while I just remove you.

LOL. The very first post in this thread tries to tell others what to do. That is an attempt to abridge the freedom of others to do as they choose. There's absolutely no doubt about that.

If someone wants to hold out for higher paying gigs, that's up to them. They have no right to tell anyone else what to do.

 

[portpc]

When I read posts such as the OP here I need to ask: "What type of music are these folks playing?.. Is it marketable?.. Entertaining?..
Is there value in it for the venue?" I don't think that you can paint all music genres being performed live with a broad brush.

Where I do agree that a new viral strain of advanced karaoke has become popular nowadays posing as live music there are plenty of opportunities for ambitious acts to work.

 

[SactoBass]

I couldn't care less about pay. I play gigs because I like to make music with others for others. Someday I won't able to do so. Until then, I'm going to play as much as I can.

Biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig +1

I play music because I love to play music. Always have, always will. I don't give a rat's behind if I get paid for it. And I like it that way! I never want playing music to turn into a "job" (eww!) In fact, there is usually at least one or more other members in the band who need money more than I do, so if it's a paying gig, I just give my share to those in the band who need it more than me.

(Disclaimer: I have a very healthy six figure income as a civil engineer, so I don't need music money. But I recognize that some musicians rely on music money to feed their family, and so for those musicians, I totally "get" the requirement to be paid to play, and I wish them lots of success!)

And regarding the notion that free players take business away from others, I don't buy it. If those others are really that good, then they will get plenty of gigs. They have to "earn" gigs by being good players and creating good music that is desirable. Free players do not represent any significant level of threat to make an issue of it.

 

[Pbassmanca]

How often do bass players, or any musicians, discuss what the going rate is? For me? ZERO times. I asked a jazz guy I was studying with.
Where I live it's pretty much $25 an hour per musician. Maybe the better players get paid better, I don't know... it isn't discussed. But I'm playing the same club as the jazz guy that was teaching me.
Lots of gigs pay $150 cash, so we play them as a duo. If they want a drummer next time, the price just went up.

This is so true about so many types of professions and industries. My "real job" is as a drywall finisher and contractor working in the residential sector. It is almost non-existent that I run into other guys who I'm competing against and discuss price etc, it just doesn't happen. Other types of professions (doctors, lawyers, dentists etc.) employ associations which function sort of as "unions" for them setting recommendations for fee schedules and other guidelines. Musicians and many other trades could benefit from this type of arrangement.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

A gig will be worth doing if it has at least 2/3 of these 'M's:

Good music
Good money
Good musicians

You focus on the money and then say that 2/3 is fine. A lot of people do this as a hobby and are fine with $50 and a couple beers. Their 2/3 are fulfilled.

 

[mambo4]

I don't believe "amateurs" playing for free is the proximate cause of decent gigs drying up.
It's a symptom of the not-so-new reality that machines are just cheaper than humans.
Technology and automation has displaced most jobs over the last half century - no signs of stopping.

The gigs are not taken by people who work for less
They are taken by machines and technologies that don't have to be paid at all.
This trend will only continue in the next few decades.

To survive at all as a thing worth paying for
live music must abandon the outdated model
where a business pays your for the service of providing music
and innovate into something less generically replaceable

 

[ctmullins]

The real issue is that music is fundamentally antithetical to industry.

 

[wmhill]

 

[SactoBass]

Here we go again...another thread about how part-time musicians are killing the scene for full-time musicians. I just don't buy it.

+1

I don't buy it either.

Buy hey.........it provides subject matter for discussion on the internet, so there's that.

 

[Kukulkan61]

YOUR NOT THE BOSS OF ME!!