Saw your profile, you're one of the lucky/talented ones. I'm admittedly mediocre, but appreciate the insight of someone that's obviously made it. I'm also old enough to know that it's not worth my bones hurting from lugging gear for 50 bucks a night. Let alone for 50 bucks being split. If someone else wants to do it, I don't have an issue with it, that's the price of living in a capitalistic society. I'm convinced that I really don't want to play someplace that hires guys that play that cheap. If you want to make good money as a musician, you've either got to sell tickets or sell beer. Eventually bad bands fail to do either. The good bands will draw. They get paid.Why do some of you guys have such a "screw you" reply to the thought s of the OP? To those of us who have done this professionally or semi pro, the points are valid. But, is it necessary to "puff yourselves up" by saying basically, "screw you, I'll play for nothing if I feel like it." It just seems that the sheen/facade of bass camaraderie
is smeared with that type of reply. I can only hope your playing skills warrant such testosterone driven drivel.
A little consideration, despite anonymity via the internet, wouldn't be out of order.
Just an observation...
Oh, and before someone inquires about my skillset or some other similar response. You'd be advised to look up my profile. All I'll do is smile... Diplomatically... That is...
Hmm...
But then again, whatever makes you happy...
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To ALL working bass players...
- Thread starter soong
- Start date
I'd love to get paid to discuss things on the internet, but there are too many doing it for free. They've killed that market.
I don't care how stagnant the music industry gets, I can always talk about the various nuances of precision bass pickups....
Or the importance of tort pickguards.
Or the comfort (or lack thereof depending on your opinion) of Ric basses.
Or what the best bass for metal is.
Or mixing cabs of different speaker diameters.
Or enjoying jumbo prawns with a minimum of three different dipping sauces.
(hey.....wait......how did that last one sneak in there?)
Would someone please show Sactobass to the door?
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That's a great "gotcha" question factory equipped with its fair share of snark via the clever use of the word "surely". Nice going!
However, it's not that simple. And, furthernore, you already know it's not that simple.
If we were talking about the one and only club in a town, we could boil it down to simple "facts". How much does the venue spend on entertainment vs. how much they profit. How many bands are available and at what costs? Any dipstick can do that math.
But we're not. We're talking about a MARKET...... a REGION.....MULTIPLE club owners that all come with their own variables such as booking agents, managers who have been given budgets, relationships with band members, etc.
We're also talking about musicians who place little or no value on their product. They don't see music as a business. They don't look at market fluctuations or see past the ends of their collective noses. Music is an outlet to them. The VALUE is about THEM. What am I getting out of this? Well, I get to dust off my toys and show them off to a crowd. I get to be up on stage and the center of attention for once! Money? Who cares about money? This is about ME! I want to play. I want to rock out for my co-workers. I want to get loud under bright lights. Put on a show? Dress the part? Forget it. That takes effort. This is about ME, remember? Negotiate higher pay? Turn down gigs if the pay is offensively low? No way! How to I get loud under bright lights if I turn down the gig? This is about me, remember?
No, it's not as simple from either end as "We can make you more money because we're better". If it were that simple, there wouldn't BE any hack bands.
The sentiment of this idea is a good one, who doesn't want to be paid (or paid more) for what they do? The problem is that you can't really force the economy to change like that. If every single musician on the planet only played for a certain universal minimum, some musicians would be able to make a better living, and some wouldn't be able to play at all.
For the most part, only musicians really value live music, and not even then. The leader of the band I'm in would rather listen to a hi-fi recording than see the same band live. We're pretty much obsolete compared to most other forms of entertainment. The constructive question is, what can we do to add value and make the higher pay worth it?
For the most part, only musicians really value live music, and not even then. The leader of the band I'm in would rather listen to a hi-fi recording than see the same band live. We're pretty much obsolete compared to most other forms of entertainment. The constructive question is, what can we do to add value and make the higher pay worth it?
I agree with this. Hobbyists can kill the industry. My hobby band be glad to comply. Provided, of course, I can get your agreement to reciprocate for our industries too. If you brew your own beer because you enjoy it and you like what you make, stop immediately. You're killing MY industry with your hobby. If you have any other hobbies that can arguably hurt someone else's business, please stop those too. Do you build decks for a little extra money at much lower rates then others in the industry? Don't do that either.
Also there are a couple of posts as usual in these venue/gigs/money type threads talking about how kids don't practice or like music. I started a thread a day ago about my teenage nephews getting gigs and playing out/subbing in with working bands. It got two likes and one response. People have tried before to give examples of young adults they know who enjoy and play music. Kids ARE playing music and are learning real instruments. Adults are just too busy whining about them to notice.
I guess at the end of the day if you make a better beer in your bathtub then I do at work, I probably don't deserve your business. But if my hobby band can play for fun and draw what you're getting in your pro band, you may want to do some thinking.
Also there are a couple of posts as usual in these venue/gigs/money type threads talking about how kids don't practice or like music. I started a thread a day ago about my teenage nephews getting gigs and playing out/subbing in with working bands. It got two likes and one response. People have tried before to give examples of young adults they know who enjoy and play music. Kids ARE playing music and are learning real instruments. Adults are just too busy whining about them to notice.
I guess at the end of the day if you make a better beer in your bathtub then I do at work, I probably don't deserve your business. But if my hobby band can play for fun and draw what you're getting in your pro band, you may want to do some thinking.
But, not only is music a business, it's also a hobby. Just like photography. Everyone has a friend with a dSLR that can take decent pics, but if you want real art you have to go to the pros. They can distinguish themselves from becky with her Nikon D40. Touring acts can distinguish themselves from local bands that are playing for the fun of it, guys that want to play covers and still be paid near touring wages have a harder sell distinguishing themselves. Tour with Beyonce, write top 40 hits, don't bemoan sometime in the 70's when someone said they made $500 / night (which I doubt).
That's a great "gotcha" question factory equipped with its fair share of snark via the clever use of the word "surely". Nice going!
However, it's not that simple. And, furthernore, you already know it's not that simple.
If we were talking about the one and only club in a town, we could boil it down to simple "facts". How much does the venue spend on entertainment vs. how much they profit. How many bands are available and at what costs? Any dipstick can do that math.
But we're not. We're talking about a MARKET...... a REGION.....MULTIPLE club owners that all come with their own variables such as booking agents, managers who have been given budgets, relationships with band members, etc.
We're also talking about musicians who place little or no value on their product. They don't see music as a business. They don't look at market fluctuations or see past the ends of their collective noses. Music is an outlet to them. The VALUE is about THEM. What am I getting out of this? Well, I get to dust off my toys and show them off to a crowd. I get to be up on stage and the center of attention for once! Money? Who cares about money? This is about ME! I want to play. I want to rock out for my co-workers. I want to get loud under bright lights. Put on a show? Dress the part? Forget it. That takes effort. This is about ME, remember? Negotiate higher pay? Turn down gigs if the pay is offensively low? No way! How to I get loud under bright lights if I turn down the gig? This is about me, remember?
No, it's not as simple from either end as "We can make you more money because we're better". If it were that simple, there wouldn't BE any hack bands.
No snark intended. I have no doubt that any band you're a part of will be better than any shorts and Reeboks hack band.
The bottom line is usually gonna be how many butts in seats you generate and how much those butts are buying. The better band should have the numbers to prove their worth. If your better product doesn't have better following than the hack band's circle friends, ya gotta ask yourself why that is.
I'm doing that right now. I'm in what I think is an above average cover band for this area that is doing OK but not great at pulling crowds. This is our issue and I'm not blaming anyone else for where we are right now.
All of these issues can be avoided if the music is good and you have a fan base.
I think that's how it started back in the day, and nothing's changed since then.
So... put in the elbow grease.
Protip from an ex "professional."
I think that's how it started back in the day, and nothing's changed since then.
So... put in the elbow grease.
Protip from an ex "professional."
I don't doubt some of the guys on here when they talk about how much they made playing gigs back in the day.
I just think playing music was more of an elite club back in those days than it is now.
It wasn’t an elite club (despite our efforts to convince young women it was). There were just far fewer choices for music then than there are now. People didn’t have extensive recorded music collections then; records or tapes were expensive and difficult to schlep. And a decent sounding music system was relatively low-powered and cost a small fortune.
Because of that, even poor musicians with lousy equipment could get hired. There was an opportunity to learn how to play live and work a crowd. Where are opportunities to do that today?
You learn how to play out by PLAYING OUT. You need a chance to suck before you can get better. Think of people doing stand-up comedy. They haven’t yet had a disruptive technology advance affect the way they have to pay their dues.
My cut of our gig takings keeps petrol in my car and pays a few rates bills (gas, electric, water) . Every little bit helps.
I understand that the OP is upset about wage deflation, but I think that my decision to offer my time and talents to a cause I believe in is...my decision. I don't find carpenters complaining if I volunteer with Habitat for Humanity on a weekend - actually, I know some of them that volunteer weekend time doing things like that.
How about a compromise: I promise I won't compete with you for bar gigs at the local watering hole for whatever pay you can wrangle if you let me play at church for whatever I decide to accept. Deal?
How about a compromise: I promise I won't compete with you for bar gigs at the local watering hole for whatever pay you can wrangle if you let me play at church for whatever I decide to accept. Deal?
Bing!
Wow, self responsibility. What a concept! Ya don't see that kinda thing too often among the human species. Most humans have a propensity to blame others for their own lack of achievement. I tip my hat to you, gln. And I hope your next gig is standing room only!
........
Or enjoying jumbo prawns with a minimum of three different dipping sauces.
(hey.....wait......how did that last one sneak in there?)
Would someone please show Sactobass to the door?
I'm with you man! Let's blow this place and go get some prawns with three different dipping sauces and a pitcher of good beer!
Is it any different than someone selling gear cheaper than the market dictates? Most of us would jump on a good deal, but that just hurts the rest of us that are selling gear at a fair price.
If you have your own draw, you can get paid. If you don't, it is much more difficult. If you can't draw, don't blame that on weekend warriors or any other boogeymen you want to create.
