To ALL working bass players...

[mikeyjm2]

Even though this topic is approaching legendary dead horse status here at TB, to make it official I will go ahead and throw in with the "if my white-sneakered, Hawaiian shirt / cargo shorts / hat wearing, Mustang Sally playing dad band is damaging the market for your technically and artistically superior really really super cool band then you should probably hold a band meeting to discuss your business tactics" side of things. Further, I know of more than one band around here composed of late teen / early 20s types of folks who do gig routinely. Speaking as a 50 year old I am fully confident that they will either figure things out for themselves or not. You can get off of my lawn if you so choose, but if you choose not to, I will pay you $35 to mow and weed eat (which is pretty well the going rate around here) so that you're not wasting time loitering on my lawn. It would get you a new set of strings. Just saying.

 

[SactoBass]

"if my white-sneakered, Hawaiian shirt / cargo shorts / hat wearing, Mustang Sally playing dad band is damaging the market for your technically and artistically superior really really super cool band then you should probably hold a band meeting to discuss your business tactics"

+1000

 

[pcake]

Are there people complaining that there is no work for professional photographers because everyone has a camera on their phones nowadays?

yes, there are.

lots of people who originally planned to have a wedding photographer end up asking a friend to take the pics. in most cases, the friend - who often doesn't have a fast enough lens to have decent lighting or a good enough camera to get undistorted photos, is very nervous about this because they know how much they don't know about photography and that in wedding pics, there are no do-overs.

a couple years ago, a relative got married. he asked another relative and my son to do the pics. the other relative turned out to have a cheap camera with a built on slow lens. the pics were dark, distorted and dismal. my son's pics were better, but he hadn't worked indoors at all previously with the lens he used, so they weren't great. my relative and his new wife were thrilled with these pics, which is typical of the people i know who instead of getting beautifully lit, perfectly framed wedding pics opted for a buddy with a camera.

another thing being done these days is that the bride and groom or their folks buys all the guests disposable cameras and tells them all to shoot the wedding. a couple of my friends did this, and the pics were universally poor and poorly lit. i guess the important thing is that the cost of the disposable cameras was far lower than an experienced wedding photographer with pro gear including a full frame camera and a spare, great lenses, experience and talent.

 

[Iridescentone]

That's against a town ordinance where I live.

Right. Rare are the communities where there are NO city ordinances, allowing residents to do whatever they want on their property. It's a BS argument from busy bodies who want to tell others how to live, always looking to cast blame and point fingers. Self-appointed Great Accusers. If you live in a community where folks can legally park junk cars on their property, then move if you don't like it, or get involved in local affairs to change the rules.

 

[SactoBass]

If you have your own draw, you can get paid. If you don't, it is much more difficult. If you can't draw, don't blame that on weekend warriors or any other boogeymen you want to create.

Yes yes!

*THIS* is causing the lack of draw!!!

 

[Bullitt5135]

Real photographers don't shoot weddings. Those are just the hacks that can't get commercial work. I make more money in two hours shooting studio pictures of RV toilets than I've ever made from a single band gig. I'm not sure what that says about me.

 

[prooftheory]

What if I don't think that there should be full-time professional musicians? What do we need them for?

 

[glocke1]

It's 2018 (um, not 2017 as I originally posted lol), sorry, as far as pay goes the guys 20 years ago who would work for the same amount they did 30 years ago already blew it. The whole "ruin it for the full timers" is invalid, unless you consider crappy bar gigs the upper echelon of work. The industry is already ruined.

thats my take on it. while there are a few "A Rooms" around that pay pretty good money, they are hard to get into unless you can bring enough people to pack them.

Everything else is $100.00 a person or less bar gigs.

These days thats fine with me...I like the people Im playing with, and I like the music.

Plus if it's a choice between staying home and talking to the dog on a saturday night (which I actually don't mind doing ) or going out and playing some music for crap pay I'll gladly take the latter.

That said, if I didn't like the people I was playing with, I'd be staying home with the dog...

 

[B-Lo]

Again, this post is not for 'bass players' but for WORKING bass players.

...but you addressed #2 to the students and weekend warriors???

 

[Iridescentone]

You forget #1: Have a good day job.

Even better....have an SO with a good paying job who won't mind supporting your "music career", because most musos can't earn enough playing music to support themselves nowadays. An unfortunate fact perhaps, but that's the reality.

(cue the "large pizza/blus musician" joke)

 

[Iridescentone]

Some thoughts of mine and a reshare of the MU's flowchart...

1. Don't be afraid to say no, or to ask what the gig pays.
2. Music students and weekend warriors: STOP taking $50 and a meal gigs. It'll hurt you in the end and KILLS our industry.
3. Don't feel guilty about saying no to a charity you don't support.
4. For the P&W guys: 'It's for ministry' DOESN'T necessarily mean you do the gig for free. The worker deserves his wages.
5. 'Exposure' will not pay your rent or put food on the table.
6. KNOW your worth.

A gig will be worth doing if it has at least 2/3 of these 'M's:

Good music
Good money
Good musicians

Wait....you're in this for the money?

If you feel you're not being paid what you're worth, maybe re-evaluate your #6 rule? Just sayin'.

 

[blue4]

Right. Rare are the communities where there are NO city ordinances, allowing residents to do whatever they want on their property. It's a BS argument from busy bodies who want to tell others how to live, always looking to cast blame and point fingers. Self-appointed Great Accusers. If you live in a community where folks can legally park junk cars on their property, then move if you don't like it, or get involved in local affairs to change the rules.

Wouldn't getting involved in local affairs to change the rules fall under your busy bodies comment? The ordinances to protect property owners rights from other negligent property owners are there because someone DID get involved in local affairs. I suppose to the guy whose sewer empties into his front yard it looks like interference, to the rest of us it simply makes sense to the entire rest of the population.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Some thoughts of mine and a reshare of the MU's flowchart...

1. Don't be afraid to say no, or to ask what the gig pays.
2. Music students and weekend warriors: STOP taking $50 and a meal gigs. It'll hurt you in the end and KILLS our industry.
3. Don't feel guilty about saying no to a charity you don't support.
4. For the P&W guys: 'It's for ministry' DOESN'T necessarily mean you do the gig for free. The worker deserves his wages.
5. 'Exposure' will not pay your rent or put food on the table.
6. KNOW your worth.

A gig will be worth doing if it has at least 2/3 of these 'M's:

Good music
Good money
Good musicians

As a praise and worship minister, and gladly unpaid I might add, let me ask you this question. How can I charge God, who gave me this talent in the first place to bless his people?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not knocking those in ministry that do get paid, that’s between them and God. For me, God has bless me and my family abundantly, not only spiritually, but financially as well, far more than what a paid musician could reasonably expect. What is I’ve more increadible is for most of my life I worked on straight commission, but my income has been incredibly stable year in year out since I started playing in this ministry.

As for this ministry, the yoke is light, and the rewards great. I play before around 1,500 people a week, week in and week out, and have been doing this for the last 22 years. How many TBers can honestly say they had a steady gig for that long?

 

[Hambone70]

I don't quite get this.

Do we not live in a free-market, capitalist society with freedom of choice? Who's to tell me as a "weekend warrior" in an amateur band that I can't play for free? And did professional musicians choose to become professional musicians, or were they forced?

 

[Iridescentone]

Real photographers don't shoot weddings. Those are just the hacks that can't get commercial work. I make more money in two hours shooting studio pictures of RV toilets than I've ever made from a single band gig. I'm not sure what that says about me.

Maybe it says you have a grip on reality and are making practical occupational decisions?

 

[SactoBass]

weekend warriors: STOP taking $50 and a meal gigs.

I would do what you are telling me to do if I was taking $50 and a meal gigs. But I never do. I always play for free and I love it! Always have, always will!

It'll hurt you in the end

Really? I've been playing since 1972. Everything is great so far! Still lovin' it!

and KILLS our industry.

Pure balderdash and poppycock.

If a band is found appealing by the general public, that band will do well. If not, it won't.

 

[Ronzo]

Real photographers don't shoot weddings. Those are just the hacks that can't get commercial work. I make more money in two hours shooting studio pictures of RV toilets than I've ever made from a single band gig. I'm not sure what that says about me.

I hope you would tell Andrew Marcus in NYC that he is a hack. And Clay Blackmore. And Patty Daniels. And Morris Wolf.

I’ll judge your commercial work when I see it. Please share your website and virtual portfolio.

 

[SactoBass]

The industry is already ruined.

Indeed. It happened quite some time ago.

I think Joe Walsh spells it out rather accurately here:

 

[fdeck]

What if I don't think that there should be full-time professional musicians? What do we need them for?

In my view, a professional doesn't necessarily have to be full time. I've had doctors who were part-time, but they were still professionals. But you need professionals when you can't afford to hold people by the hand, and can't afford to have them screw up.

A wedding might be such a situation. A high profile orchestra concert with a famous soloist, expensive ticket sales, and broadcast / recording, might be another. In the case of weddings, I can't speak for bands, because the only ones I've played in were strictly professional. But I've heard stories of DJ's and photographers screwing up weddings. My spouse and I ended up waiting a year for our "professional" wedding pictures, and the pics that we ended up sending to all of our friends and relatives, were taken by my mom.

I also don't define "professional" as an income level, but in terms of what abilities and conduct they bring to their work.

To make an analogy, consider a "professional" electrician or plumber. You can call an electrician, and trust them to assess what work is needed, and do it correctly and completely, without you even having to watch them or check their work. However, you don't expect their work to be particularly creative or artistic.

Do we not live in a free-market, capitalist society with freedom of choice?

We do and we don't. There's no actual law that dictates our economic system, and whether we actually have free markets and capitalism is a matter of debate among reasonable people. There's also no reason why, within any economic system, we can't discuss ways to improve that system.

 

[SactoBass]

Wait....you're in this for the money?

If you feel you're not being paid what you're worth, maybe re-evaluate your #6 rule? Just sayin'.

LOL! Good one, Templar!