To ALL working bass players...

[40Hz]

The "translation" nonsense are your words and describe the sentiment of the original post in this thread.

The translation "nonsense" as you characterize it are my words. The words that appeared in in the quote box with my handle were yours as you originally posted it. I also see you've since quietly fixed it. Thank you!

The OP's post was also far from saying "I'm helpless." It was a request for action. Very different from your post which said there's nothing anybody can do about it.

So you're mischaracterizing his post as well as mine.

 

[Dana R Gregory]

I you want to play for nothing, just for enjoyment, then go to an open mic/jam or busk. If you play a gig, you should get paid. We all play because we enjoy music but this is a business and nobody is going to give us free gas, insurance, transportation ect. just because someone wants to play "Rock Star" just for enjoyment. Sorry, Homey don't play that game.

 

[mongo2]

The translation "nonsense" as you characterize it are my words. The words that appeared in in the quote box with my handle were yours as you originally posted it. I also see you've since quietly fixed it. Thank you!

The OP's post was also far from saying "I'm helpless." It was a request for action. Very different from your post which said there's nothing anybody can do about it.

So you're mischaracterizing his post as well as mine.

If you look at your post #36 there is some sort of quote manipulation error and that carried over when I quoted you. So I corrected the carry over error.

I certainly am not mischaracterizing anything. His post is a call to do what he says and you post describes precisely that sentiment. Nothing you say will change that.

 

[40Hz]

I certainly am not, his post is a call to do exactly what he says and you post describes precisely that sentiment. Nothing you say will change that.

You lost me. I have no idea what you're talking about at this point. And I'm out of time for now. I'll drop by later when I get a minute.

 

[mongo2]

You lost me. I have no idea what you're talking about at this point.

I can't do anything about that.

 

[two fingers]

Sounds like you just want to blame someone. I've played out for the last 45+ years. Nothing you or anyone else says is going to change that, and I'm going to continue doing so for as long as I can. I'm certainly never going to feel guilty about it.

I could play a gig four nights a week if I wanted. My ohone rings off the hook.

I'm not blaming cheap bands for a lack if gigs around here.

I'm blaming cheap bands for the fact that it's ridiculously hard for any of us to get a fair amount of koney for what we do. If a hack trio will play for $200 it makes it kinda hard for a real band to step in and demand a grand.

 

[mongo2]

I could play a gig four nights a week if I wanted. My ohone rings off the hook.

I'm not blaming cheap bands for a lack if gigs around here.

I'm blaming cheap bands for the fact that it's ridiculously hard for any of us to get a fair amount of koney for what we do. If a hack trio will play for $200 it makes it kinda hard for a real band to step in and demand a grand.

Like I said, blaming someone.

 

[AaronVonRock]

A semi-pro guit player friend of mine in a rock cover band with 5 guys could barely get $100 for a 2 hour set.

The singer left to join a wedding band where he was making $200-$300 per gig a couple of times a week.

Good news - I'm getting paid.
Bad news - I'm in a wedding band.

 

[Kriegs]

Some thoughts of mine and a reshare of the MU's flowchart...

1. Don't be afraid to say no, or to ask what the gig pays.
2. Music students and weekend warriors: STOP taking $50 and a meal gigs. It'll hurt you in the end and KILLS our industry.
3. Don't feel guilty about saying no to a charity you don't support.
4. For the P&W guys: 'It's for ministry' DOESN'T necessarily mean you do the gig for free. The worker deserves his wages.
5. 'Exposure' will not pay your rent or put food on the table.
6. KNOW your worth.

A gig will be worth doing if it has at least 2/3 of these 'M's:

Good music
Good money
Good musicians

Does anyone else realize that the post and its advice is self-contradictory?

The rules are all about monetary income however, the post follows all that up by saying that money doesn't matter if there is good music and good musicians.

As a corollary, and I genuinely mean this as a question because I don't know the answer: Are there people complaining that amateur community players acting in small local theatres/school auditoriums is destroying the acting business. Are there people complaining that there is no work for professional photographers because everyone has a camera on their phones nowadays?

It seems to me that no other profession comes down as hard on the hobbyists that ultimately build its ranks as the music industry does. Not everyone will make it to pro level and enjoy the luxury of being able to play, eat and lodge for the night on someone else's dime. Some will do it for free for the experience of doing so. Remember, like every other person and in every other industry, we all started out making crap money and worked our way up. Can you blame a person for getting paid what employers offer in their area? Do you really think that local musicians can, in any way, force the venues to pay them more? How well has the "Musicians Union" done at keeping the venues paying musicians their due wages?

The fact is simple: Times, technology, advertising and sales within our industry have changed. It is incumbent on each of us to figure out how to survive or be left behind. Berating the new crop of musicians, forcing contradictory messages about money, music and the hang and insisting that they must do something that the current generation of 'working musicians' hasn't been able to do for itself is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Nothing will change. Instead of uniting, this causes and widens the chasm between new and experienced musicians. The one that we built and maintain ourselves. It's being done in this thread. It is stated that anyone that isn't getting paid some minimum arbitrary amount isn't a professional and is doing it wrong. There is no offer of advice other than 'know your worth' and 'demand more money'. Go ahead and walk in and try that tactic with your boss at your day job... even if you are a 'working' bass player. Walk up and say "I am worth more than what you pay me. I demand more." If that works, you owe me a fee. You see, I am a lifestyle consultant and I know my worth and if I have helped you with my advice, you owe me money.

 

[AaronVonRock]

I'm blaming cheap bands for the fact that it's ridiculously hard for any of us to get a fair amount of koney for what we do. If a hack trio will play for $200 it makes it kinda hard for a real band to step in and demand a grand.

I would make the argument if a "hack trio" can do the job good enough, the "real band" might have room for improvement.

Reminds of the comedian that said something to the effect "If foreigners without contacts, money, or speaking the language can steal your job, you probably suck."

 

[smtp4me]

I may get flamed for this - people (obviously) play music for different reasons. I don't think it is the responsibility of those who do as a hobby/for enjoyment, to demand higher wages simply to ensure full-time musicians get what they need. Kind of analogous to Mercedes Benz crying foul because Kia sells cheaper cars.

Sorry - I don't mean to offend musicians whose income is derived completely from gigging, I just don't agree.

 

[Mister Boh]

Nobody wants to pay to see a crappy originals band or mediocre cover bands. Most bands are one or the other.

Don't blame people for playing out. 50 and a meal is probably overpaid for many. I know it was for the bands I played in. I think that if you really excel and stop trying to play bars or clubs you will be more likely to make real money.

The professionals I knew made a living from many different sources: private lessons, being faculty or adjunct faculty at colleges, recording sessions, in addition to playing one off gigs and in professional bands.

 

[TheLowDown33]

I feel for musicians who struggle to earn a living playing live music, but the reality is you are simply not going to be able to support yourself as well as someone who has a day job with set hours, benefits, etc. One of the primary features in a free market society is the incentive to have a marketable skill. Unfortunately in music, this means that you have to be at the top to reap the benefits. Also worth noting is that most successful musicians teach, do session work, repair instruments, or straight up have a job unrelated to music.

I know that these things influenced my career choices. I could have gone to music school, and I'd probably be a much better musician, but the uncertainty made me choose otherwise. I got an engineering degree, and now I get to play with two different bands on the weekends and while the income doesn't support me, it helps fuel my gear addiction and that's a pretty decent tradeoff.

Edit: spelling, because I'm an engineer

 

[smtp4me]

I know that these things influenced my career choices. I could have gone to music school, and I'd probably be a much better musician, but the uncertainty made me choose otherwise. I got on engineering degree, and now I get to play with two different bands on the weekends and while the income doesn't support me, it helps fuel my gear addiction and that's a pretty decent tradeoff.

Me too. I went to college to study music. Did that for 2 years and started to ask what I was going to do with a music degree - what kind of job would it get me. I like(d) having a steady paycheck, so I opted for a degree and career in IT and now I play music just for fun (which removes the pressure of earning money from it).

 

[TheLowDown33]

Me too. I went to college to study music. Did that for 2 years and started to ask what I was going to do with a music degree - what kind of job would it get me. I like(d) having a steady paycheck, so I opted for a degree and career in IT and now I play music just for fun (which removes the pressure of earning money from it).

That's another thing people often forget. Making a career in music usually means you will have to play music you don't like, which kind of removes the fun from it anyway.

 

[groooooove]

I disagree with "don't do a $50 gig"


look up the calendar for the nearest large (lets say over 1000 capacity) venue to wherever you are. Plenty of people are playing - a bunch of them will be sold out. Do you really think that will change if there are too many college music students playing for $50?

of course not!

I bet the majority of the people in those bands, regardless of genre, played tons of $50 gigs until they were worth more than that. Telling a kid not to take a minimum wage job is the same thing - do that until you are worth more. It will happen if you insist on it.

Low paying jobs do not ruin any business. they're just a part of the economy, thats all.

 

[Mantis Tobaggan]

If your message is to stop playing for free, then your message isn’t addressing working bass players.

 

[Mantis Tobaggan]

In my interpretation this thread is for those who rely, at least in part, on the money made from playing professionally. I'm sure everyone reading and posting does something to support themselves, pay rent, eat, own a car etc. Imagine that you find yourself in need of a new job (whatever you do, mechanic, insurance salesman, teacher, whatever) and everywhere you apply you're offered far less salary then you'd need to support your household. Do you love your job so much you would do it just to do it? Wouldn't you be upset if other people were undercutting you so much that you can't get a fair wage? Wouldn't you also be upset if the attitudes of those hiring you saw so little value in what you do that they hire the lowest priced person they can, even if they product they provide is sub par? I think that's how this has to be looked at.

Bass playing isn’t a job, I enjoy it without getting paid.

 

[GBBSbassist]

The industry is only dead to you if you're a dinosaur without a marketable act. It has nothing to do with crappy band playing for peanuts. The top paid cover/tribute bands in your area are going to continue making money doing what they do well regardless of how many bad bands pop up and offer to play for free.

There are a lot of you who overestimate your skills. The bottom line is if you lose out on a paying gig because someone with an Ipod can entertain the crowd as good as you and your buddies can, than you're the one doing something wrong.

 

[Mantis Tobaggan]

I feel for musicians who struggle to earn a living playing live music, but the reality is you are simply not going to be able to support yourself as well as someone who has a day job with set hours, benefits, etc. One of the primary features in a free market society is the incentive to have a marketable skill. Unfortunately in music, this means that you have to be at the top to reap the benefits. Also worth noting is that most successful musicians teach, do session work, repair instruments, or straight up have a job unrelated to music.

I know that these things influenced my career choices. I could have gone to music school, and I'd probably be a much better musician, but the uncertainty made me choose otherwise. I got on engineering degree, and now I get to play with two different bands on the weekends and while the income doesn't support me, it helps fuel my gear addiction and that's a pretty decent tradeoff.

amen.