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To ALL working bass players...

#21
As a venue manager for over 20 years and a roadie and DJ before that i can tell you the biggest killers of gigs are;
Youngsters that will pay $15 cover charge to see a reality tv "star" guest DJ but won't pay $10 to see a good band and the fact that you can get a bigger crowd in your venue by paying a decent DJ $500 to play from 9pm till 3am or paying an average band $750 to play from 9 pm till 12.30 am and still needing to pay a DJ to play between sets and then through till 3am
 
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#22
soong said:
2. Music students and weekend warriors: STOP taking $50 and a meal gigs. It'll hurt you in the end and KILLS our industry.
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It's not realistic to say that $50 is the number that applies to "Music students and weekend warriors" everywhere -- economics vary far too much across the country, to say nothing of the world. I get your point, but it's just too simplistic to say that $50 is the cutoff. Anyway, the real problem, IME, is too much supply and not enough demand.
 
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#23
When I was learning how to play jazz (and was terrible), $50 and a meal was more than I was worth. It essentially was live fire practice with a Real Book.We had a regular Sunday brunch trio thing in a sandwich shop and occasional gigs in coffee shops.

Was I ruining the business?

(I don't think so. And I never went below $125 plus meal for a steakhouse once I was good enough to get those gigs.)
 
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#24
TheBear said:
Wholeheartedly agree on all points but #2: I believe that what's killing "our" industry is the dramatic fall of income revenue from recorded music and the assumed solution to rest the lion's share of music income on live performances and merch. Whether it'll eventually be the end of the financial side of the music industry or rather just a re-orientation to a new normal remains to be seen. However, hobbyists and weekend warriors taking insultingly low pay for weekend gigs doesn't really help establish precedent of getting paid a normal pay scale for shows.
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A semi-pro guit player friend of mine in a rock cover band with 5 guys could barely get $100 for a 2 hour set.

The singer left to join a wedding band where he was making $200-$300 per gig a couple of times a week.
 
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#25
I'm not sure where all you live, but here in Spain, things are getting complicated. Most venues ask you to pay 300 bucks as a rent to play in their local. Then you set the price of your tickets (which higher than 5 bucks will be seen expensive. And even at that price, people don't tend to go watch a band they never heard of). The other conditions some venues offer is that, they charge 3 bucks per ticket and the band don't get paid. Then, the band can set a higher price (for example, 7€) so that the price minus the 3 bucks is what the band "gets paid" (4€ per ticket in this example). In a successful night the band gets paid 140-200 bucks. And at the end of your set, you are asked (normally, in a very rude way) to leave the stage because a "DJ" will come and they need to prepare the stage. You have to leave your amp, instruments and everything in a corner next to the dance floor (I usually leave, because sometimes when I have stayed someone tried to steal some gear)

If you get lucky and get big enough, you will be invited to festivals. My bass teacher plays in a really successful band. They play two-three times per week. He cannot make a living with his band.

I must also say why I wrote "DJ" instead of DJ. I respect good DJs. But it looks like lately everyone can be one. A friend of mine organised a festival and the last attraction was a Youtuber DJ. She just created a Spotify playlist. She even dissapeared for 20 minutes during her set. She got paid half of what I get paid in my day job for just one night
 
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#26
Stumbo said:
DJs and karaoke have taken an uncountable number of gigs "away" from professional musicians and musicians in general.
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Err.. Deja Vous that's exactly what I said back in '77 then proudly stuck the Musician Manned NOT Canned decal on my car and didn't get any work for a year BUT it was the height of the Disco era... Sydney has not changed much I see!
 
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#27
soong said:
Some thoughts of mine and a reshare of the MU's flowchart...

1. Don't be afraid to say no, or to ask what the gig pays.
2. Music students and weekend warriors: STOP taking $50 and a meal gigs. It'll hurt you in the end and KILLS our industry.
3. Don't feel guilty about saying no to a charity you don't support.
4. For the P&W guys: 'It's for ministry' DOESN'T necessarily mean you do the gig for free. The worker deserves his wages.
5. 'Exposure' will not pay your rent or put food on the table.
6. KNOW your worth.

A gig will be worth doing if it has at least 2/3 of these 'M's:

Good music
Good money
Good musicians

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Is MU musician’s union?
 
#29
mongo2 said:
I couldn't care less about pay. I play gigs because I like to make music with others for others. Someday I won't able to do so. Until then, I'm going to play as much as I can.
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That's fine. Just know (as I have said here countless times before) that you are hurting your local music scene by doing it.

Put what you're saying in another context.

"I have the "right" to park a 67 Nova on cinder blocks in my front yard. I just like an ole' Nova and screw you if you don't like it. I don't give a crap if it hurts my neighbors' real estate values and is generally ugly to look at when you walk/drive by. It's my right. And I don't give a crap about my own home's value. I ain't moving no time soon so why should I care?"

Sometimes it's not just about you....
 
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#31
soulman969 said:
Which is of course the point the OP and many others are making.

It's not that I don't understand your motivation. I do. But you "hobby" isn't helping others get paid fairly for their efforts. There are also many opportunities to play for tips alone that don't compete with venues where bands book.
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Sounds like you just want to blame someone. I've played out for the last 45+ years. Nothing you or anyone else says is going to change that, and I'm going to continue doing so for as long as I can. I'm certainly never going to feel guilty about it.
 
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#33
In my interpretation this thread is for those who rely, at least in part, on the money made from playing professionally. I'm sure everyone reading and posting does something to support themselves, pay rent, eat, own a car etc. Imagine that you find yourself in need of a new job (whatever you do, mechanic, insurance salesman, teacher, whatever) and everywhere you apply you're offered far less salary then you'd need to support your household. Do you love your job so much you would do it just to do it? Wouldn't you be upset if other people were undercutting you so much that you can't get a fair wage? Wouldn't you also be upset if the attitudes of those hiring you saw so little value in what you do that they hire the lowest priced person they can, even if they product they provide is sub par? I think that's how this has to be looked at.
 
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#35
mongo2 said:
Nothing you or anyone else says is going to change that,
and I'm going to continue doing so for as long as I can. I'm certainly never going to feel guilty about it.
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Translation: I've decided I'm helpless to change anything and I firmly believe everybody else should feel the same way too. And either way, as long as I'm getting what I want, I don't care about anything (or anybody) else. So there!
 
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#38
mongo2 said:
It's only rock-n-roll.
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I guess you're doubling down on your previous:
mongo2 said:
Translation: I've decided I'm helpless to change anything and I firmly believe everybody else should feel the same way too. And either way, as long as I'm getting what I want, I don't care about anything (or anybody) else. So there!
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You just described the original post in this thread.

It's only rock-n-roll.
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I'm not sure what you're saying here. But the words you're quoting aren't mine. Those are yours. Might want to fix your post to get where they are my words into the quote box. The text editor here has a problem with quotes within quotes. It's doable. But it's a bit of a pain.

And yeah, "It's only rock and roll."

But that's Mick, Keith, Bill, and Charlie talking. They got what they wanted too. Big time. So coming from them it really means: "We don't care - we're already There!" ;)
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#39
40Hz said:
I guess you're doubling down on your previous:


You just described the original post in this thread.

It's only rock-n-roll.[/QUO
I'm not sure what you're saying here. But the words you're quoting aren't mine. Those are yours. Might want to fix your post to get where they are my words into the quote box. The text editor here has a problem with quotes within quotes. It's doable. But it's a bit of a pain.
TE]
And yeah, "It's only rock and roll."

But that's Mick, Keith, Bill, and Charlie talking. They got what they wanted too. Big time. So coming from them it really means: "We don't care - we're already There!" ;)
Click to expand...

The "translation" nonsense are your words from your post (#36) and describe the sentiment of the original post in this thread.
 
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