To ALL working bass players...

[StraffordMike]

Again, this post is not for 'bass players' but for WORKING bass players.



The assumption is, you're not.

Oh sorry didn’t know there was a “class” system here at TB. If I’m taking $50 for a gig, whether you think it’s a fair wage or not, I’m getting paid and because of this, I am a WORKING MUSICIAN. I also get to toss around the title “ Professional” too.

 

[StraffordMike]

Again, this post is not for 'bass players' but for WORKING bass players.



The assumption is, you're not.

And being “ Professional” also means knowing when to engage the brain before you go around being an elitist. Try looking up the word humility.

 

[two fingers]

Like I said, blaming someone.

So, you think playing for next to nothing has no adverse effect on your local music scene? Or do you just not care as lomg as YOU get to play?

 

[Reedt2000]

Bass playing isn’t a job, I enjoy it without getting paid.

I get that and if that works for you there is no problem with that. Lots of folks work on cars for the love and passion of it too, but lots of people do it as a vocation. I would venture to guess that's why the OP included working bassists in the title. Many if us are playing professionally which just like a mechanic involves investing in specialized equipment, being available on the time table of your customers and employers, not your own, and working on projects you don't like and otherwise wouldn't do (ie playing sweet Caroline a million times, or brown eyed girl, etc). When you are working in such a capacity you want to be compensated fairly, just like a professional mechanic. I don't necessarily blame other players, I think it is the club and bar owners that I watch sell tens of thousands of dollars in over priced alcohol to hundreds of people in a single night then hem and haw about paying a band of great players who conducted themselves professionally, brought out $6000 + in audio equipment, and entertained the hell out of the venue's customers (keeping them there all night to comtunue to buy dtinks) $500. All the folks who under-sell their musical services do is enable thst sort of behavior.

 

[StraffordMike]

Now I’m on a rant. I almost quit playing because I run into so many guys like you running down others, and that’s exactly what that post is.so some newbie gets an opportunity to play out and you think he should pass on that experience and opportunity because of your inflated opinion of you’re own personal musical skill?
Well I can see where you’d get your wish. Less and less new players would be entering the scene therefore there’d be less players, thereby less competition for gigs raising the going rates. Or, it could just be the death knell for local live music cause all you “ pro working musicians” will just price yourselves out of a job.

 

[Mantis Tobaggan]

I get that and if that works for you there is no problem with that. Lots of folks work on cars for the love and passion of it too, but lots of people do it as a vocation. I would venture to guess that's why the OP included working bassists in the title. Many if us are playing professionally which just like a mechanic involves investing in specialized equipment, being available on the time table of your customers and employers, not your own, and working on projects you don't like and otherwise wouldn't do (ie playing sweet Caroline a million times, or brown eyed girl, etc). When you are working in such a capacity you want to be compensated fairly, just like a professional mechanic. I don't necessarily blame other players, I think it is the club and bar owners that I watch sell tens of thousands of dollars in over priced alcohol to hundreds of people in a single night then hem and haw about paying a band of great players who conducted themselves professionally, brought out $6000 + in audio equipment, and entertained the hell out of the venue's customers (keeping them there all night to comtunue to buy dtinks) $500. All the folks who under-sell their musical services do is enable thst sort of behavior.

Except the bars where I play metal aren’t going to hire you anyway. It is a different scene. Me playing for free doesn’t affect the type of bass player you describe. Also, we buy good equipment too. People griping about hobbyists is 100% deflection. We don’t affect you.

 

[eJake]

It depends? If it's three sets in a club on a Saturday for 500 people, then yes, I'm mad at you. : D

I was thinking more of a Tuesday dinner set. Def not trying to get underpaid but recognizing that some times 50 and a meal is adequate. if I sat at home on said Tuesday, I'd have to make my own dinner...

 

[mongo2]

So, you think playing for next to nothing has no adverse effect on your local music scene? Or do you just not care as lomg as YOU get to play?

Nobody ever got paid much around here so, no, that hasn't changed.

 

[two fingers]

I would make the argument if a "hack trio" can do the job good enough, the "real band" might have room for improvement.

Reminds of the comedian that said something to the effect "If foreigners without contacts, money, or speaking the language can steal your job, you probably suck."

No. This is simple market forces.

If there were no cheap hack bands we could all charge more for our services. And the club owners would still do fine profit wise.

I used to work in radio ad sales. There was only one privately owned radio station in our area. This guy just wanted all of his commercial slots filled. The "going rate" in our market for an ad at the time averaged out to $30 per ad run over the air. If this guy had empty slots he would sell them for $5. All that did was cause headaches for us AND HIMSELF down the road. If word gets out that you can run radio ads for $5, why would you ever pay $30..... even if the $30 ad is more effdctive? He had DEVALUED not only his own product, but ours as well.

Local hacks SO DESPARATE to play under the lights in front of people are suckers that club owners can see coming a mile away. They know you just wanna play so badly that you'll do it for next to nothing. They can smell it on you. (That doesn't mean you specifically.)

That also gives them leverage to price down great local bands as well. It makes their negotiating position that much stronger.

 

[saabfender]

Nobody ever got paid much around here so, no, that hasn't changed.

Having moved around some, I truly feel your pain. Some towns are like that. Bunch of idiot bands playing for free (or nearly) talking a lot of mess about how they “do it for the love of the music.” No, they just suck and are rationalizing their true market value.

 

[grinx]

my band is not going to infringe on your wedding band or dad-rock cover band playing for peanuts at Smokey's WonderPub every Thursday nite (Ladies half-price!) and if another band or artist is put out by what someone else charges....lol.

be a better performer. you are hired entertainment.

music is (can be) an expensive hobby up to the point that it becomes a career for some

 

[socialleper]

Oh, this old chestnut again.
If you only want to play paying gigs, cool. You will never play original music in some markets.
Period.
Full stop.
"Professional musicians" don't want to play the shows I play because they are too cool to play anything that isn't 20 years old or isn't living in the shadow of someone else as a hired gun. There are literally dozens of bands that will though, so if I don't want to play it, the venue doesn't give a hoot.
If you don't play the free shows you will never create an audience, sell merch, or create enough buzz to get signed. Once you are on a label, then you get paid.
BTW, many "professional musicians" I know can't make a living wage at music no matter what, so it is always a side gig.

 

[thomas-k]

Seems to me, if you're a PRO, you should not be competing with music students and week-end warriors for the same gigs... If -as a PRO- you're stuck doing bar gigs that appeal to hobbyists, maybe you should reconsider your carreer. Sounds harsh (like the OP) maybe, but a pro should do a lot more than bar gigs in a cover band IMO, which is precisely student/beginners/hobbyists territory (probably wasn't the case 20/30 years ago, but this is 2018)

 

[AaronVonRock]

Local hacks SO DESPARATE to play under the lights in front of people are suckers that club owners can see coming a mile away. They know you just wanna play so badly that you'll do it for next to nothing. They can smell it on you. (That doesn't mean you specifically.)

That also gives them leverage to price down great local bands as well. It makes their negotiating position that much stronger.

How many people are the local hacks drawing to the club? If it's in the same ballpark as the great local bands, that's a nobrainer for the club owners. And that has nothing to do with the ability of the musicians involved.

I think some bands tend overvalue their worth to a venue while some bands undervalue it. If you can draw a crowd, you stand a better chance of getting paid accordingly regardless if you are a weekend warrior or a pro.

 

[Kriegs]

Local hacks SO DESPARATE to play under the lights in front of people are suckers that club owners can see coming a mile away. They know you just wanna play so badly that you'll do it for next to nothing. They can smell it on you. (That doesn't mean you specifically.)

The cause of the problem that you are talking about isn't that the 'hacks' exist. The cause that the club owners, seeing a chance to make money (which they are in the business of doing), offer pay to play opportunities for bands. When they make that decision, they make a fundamental change in their business model. If that is not the kind of establishment that you want to do business with, it is incumbent on you to find another venue. Not berate the venues' owners for their business decisions.

That also gives them leverage to price down great local bands as well. It makes their negotiating position that much stronger.

That only occurs if the 'great' local bands insist on playing at a venue that is pay to play but refuse to follow the business' policies on pay to play.

The issue isn't the hobbyists accepting less money that a professional. The issue is a group of professionals who refuse to acknowledge that the business, venues, fan base, distribution, tour support, merchandising and every other way to make money in music has fundamentally changed. That issue is compounded when, rather than adapt to and roll with the changes, they dig in with both heels and start blaming everyone and everything around them for the "downfall of the industry".

Bear in mind, these are just the musings of a guy that sometimes gets paid pretty well to play music all over the country. Your mileage, as always, may vary

Peace to all on whatever path you walk

 

[mellowinman]

What's been killing the scene for as long as I remember is sub-par musicians/bands who think they are rock stars. There are some really great players and bands out there, but it's not going to be possible for club owners to make the distinction. They are in business to make money, not to further art. The scene has been oversaturated for many years, and it's only going to get worse.

Sorry for the reality check.

 

[Bass Viking]

That's fine. Just know (as I have said here countless times before) that you are hurting your local music scene by doing it.

Put what you're saying in another context.

"I have the "right" to park a 67 Nova on cinder blocks in my front yard. I just like an ole' Nova and screw you if you don't like it. I don't give a crap if it hurts my neighbors' real estate values and is generally ugly to look at when you walk/drive by. It's my right. And I don't give a crap about my own home's value. I ain't moving no time soon so why should I care?"

Sometimes it's not just about you....

That reminds me, a street near me has a lot of beautiful, well kept houses except for this one place that’s a total dump. I pity the neighbours. Everyday they have to look at this eyesore and heaven help them if they try to sell their home!

 

[TheReceder]

I play to buy and maintain gear so I guess that puts me someplace between a professional and a hobbiest

If I had the choice of not playing or playing cheap for the rest of my life, I'd go cheap, at least I wouldn't be buying strings out of my living money but.... as soon as you go cheap .... eventually the word gets around and you'll always be playing for peanuts. If you don't suck, ask for more and you'll get it.

 

[jnsnj]

Me playing originals for little to no money at house shows or local mob fronts has no effect on what you get paid playing the annual corporate luncheon.

 

[Pbassmanca]

I'm confused. I am a working bass player. Are you mad at me for taking 50 and a meal?

$50 and a meal for one set in the afternoon or early evening with backline provided is "okay". Beyond that it doesn't work for me at all, and frankly even though the current environment where it seems there are less live music venues, and they're struggling to make money from people who pre-drink most of their booze at home ; we should remember that players were regularly getting paid 100 to $200 a gig 20 years ago or more. Even $100 for a gig in today's economy doesn't make it easy to put food on the table.