• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

To slap or not to slap/why I hate it

To slap or not to slap/why I hate it

  • Total voters
    321
  • Poll closed .
#201
jamiefoxer said:
How long did it take others here?
Click to expand...

Im a slow learner. Plus I really dont have the natural born talent. Its taken a good 5 years, for me to get half way decent at slaping.

Theres a diference between slapping, and then really slaping. Really slaping with an impecable groove, is where its at.

Without the xtra ordinary groove, slaping gets on peoples nerves. At least it gets on my nerves.

nothing worse than a grooveless slap
 
#202
The results of this poll were not borne out in the conversation. 44% of us said we play slap frequently, and something like 9% said we hated it. Yet, most of the thread was negatively inclined towards the style. The vocal minority...
 
#207
That was double thumping? Am I mistaken, or does the up/down slap technique not actually make the "slap" sound? By slap sound, I mean the sound of the string actually striking the frets? I can do this technique where I hold my thumb like a pick and move it up and down. It sounds nothing like slap, more like a muted pick.
 
#208
Originally Posted by WJGreer
The results of this poll were not borne out in the conversation. 44% of us said we play slap frequently, and something like 9% said we hated it. Yet, most of the thread was negatively inclined towards the style. The vocal minority...

Here's my take on this poll . . .

The poll question wasn't asked as fairly as possible. Most opinion polls I've participated in usually have the opinion asked on a scale, like:

Strongy like
Somewhat like
ambivalent
Somewhat dislike
Strongly dislike

If the quesiton was asked like this, I'm sure there would be quite a number of ambivalent/somewhat dislike (as I would answer myself)

I don't HATE it. That's waaaaay too strong a word for my feelings about any technique, including tapping, harmonics, playing the bass with a pick attached to a speed drill . . . etc.

I pride myself on being a good bass player of the more supportive nature. Nothing makes me more happy than working with a really good song, no matter what genre. Slapping is funny because I haven't heard anyone use it outside of the "funk" field. There may be a jazz song with slapping, say, but the bassist will use the technique to "funk-ify" the feel. I'm not a fan of the technique because it's not a real expressive one, to me at least.

Slap, I think, tends to get used only in that 16th note, double-time feel, mid tempo groove tune of a more agressive, up tempo nature. Oh, sure, it gets used in major key AND minor keys, but the music always seems to propulse along in this predictable manner. I haven't ever heard the technigue get used on a beautiful ballad to make it more beautiful, for instance.

In terms if appreciation, I like slap less than tapping, less than harmonics, waaaay less than pickstyle. (Joe Osborn was the guy that made me love pick playing, BTW) Up till now all these techniques have been used more expressively and beautifully, in a wider range of songs in a wider range of fields. Each of these can go from a whisper to a roar, from small to large and back again.

Here's what slap needs: Someone with the depth of vision to take it out of it's funk roots and make it more universal. Slap on a polka without taking away from the polka? Anyone? Overdub some slap on a 3/4 jazz tune (Someday My Prince Will Come) as played by Bill Evans without taking away from the Bill Evans-ness of it?

It is for these reasons that I try to shy my students away from it. Victor Wooten, the best slapper on the planet, arguably, probably slaps, what, maybe 30% of the time? (Dont' shoot, you crazy Americans, I'm only guessing. . . ) Also, there's no point, other than maintaining a students flagging interest in the instrument, of showing someone how to do this if their basics (strong timekeeping, good note selection, understanding of sixteenth note feels) is not developed very well. Most of my students, i should say, are in the beginner/intermediate range.

In conclusion, I would probably vote 'Somewhat dislike" if the poll was stated in the way I stated earlier. I DO know how to do it, though not as well as I know how to fingerpick. I love that Tony Oppenheim book. Really well laid out, great exercises, bad ass exaples (all in E, though) Fun, fun, fun. I loved that David Dyson clip. So strong and authoritative. But notice the other musicians: They laid back. This was clearly David Dyson's moment in the spotlight, his showcase. I couldn't stay for an entire concert of that, personally.

I think this question was initially asked by someone with the agenda to justify the technique to the bass community. That doesn't mean it isn't a good question. Any question that sets in motion an honest and open debate is a good one, in my book.

Glenn

There are going to be some haters out there who are now going to go to my Myspace site and check out clips of my playing to try to bash me. Listen to them. I'm alright, don't you think. Not too flashy, because the songs dont' require me to be. If they did require me to be flashy, I would have to quit. I'm not that flashy. Can't do too much of that stuff.
 
#209
Gyoon said:
Here's my take on this poll . . .

The poll question wasn't asked as fairly as possible. Most opinion polls I've participated in usually have the opinion asked on a scale, like:

Strongy like
Somewhat like
ambivalent
Somewhat dislike
Strongly dislike

If the quesiton was asked like this, I'm sure there would be quite a number of ambivalent/somewhat dislike (as I would answer myself)


I think this question was initially asked by someone with the agenda to justify the technique to the bass community.
Click to expand...




Maybe I should have asked for your permission on how I should go about posting my poll.

I hate to burst your bubble Glenn but in all honesty I asked the question because I hear how it's dogged out so much and I was simply curious as to why.I personally could care less about the justifying of the technique,a technique that I use maybe 10 % of the time any way.

Gyoon said:
Here's what slap needs: Someone with the depth of vision to take it out of it's funk roots and make it more universal. Slap on a polka without taking away from the polka? Anyone? Overdub some slap on a 3/4 jazz tune (Someday My Prince Will Come) as played by Bill Evans without taking away from the Bill Evans-ness of it?
Click to expand...

And since this is what you you feel the technique needs why don't you become the self appointed Savior of this controversial technique and rescue it from it's many potential destroyers :)
 
#210
The poll was closed already but I would have voted that
I use it .
And as Jim carrey would say in dumb and dumber

" I like it...I like alot".
I've heard it done very well merengue style , which is a little
difficult and very nice in salsa ala Ruben Rodriguez and the original salsa slapper Sal Cuevas!:bassist:
 
#211
I didn't mean for this to get nasty . . . I'm sorry, man.

I can't slap amazing, that's why. I'm proficient, at best. Not as good as you. I've seen your Youtube clips. I didn't ask the question about different settings for slap because I wanted to put people to shame. I asked it because there might, somewhere out there, be someone who can actually do it.

Using the example of Joe Osborn, who would have ever thought you can get that funky with a pick? It took him, for me anyways, to show me that, yeah, you can do it. Jaco with harmonics? Stanley Jordan with tapping? Gimmickry for most people, these guys made it an expressive and viable voice.

I wouldn't take any offense to my words. This question was asked to open dialogue. I feel like I have done that. Aside from the remark about the intent of the question (low blow, I humbly retract, I am sorry), everything else I have said, I stand behind. I guess with the last few posts, it just seemed like the real supporters of this technique were getting a little too smug. (that thing about 9% pf people hating it, but they are the vocal minority. That, I think was off base) There wasn't anybody to play devil's advocate. Hence, my statement about the different way the question could have been posed.

Another reason I don't like slap that much is because it seems its a false indicator of someones ability as a player. Kind of like dunking in the NBA. Fun? Hell, yeah. What's to hate? Can't base your game on it, though. Kind of like the bench press is to someone's overall level of fitness. "How much you bench?" Common question. It's never "what's your core strength?" "How's your lifting technique?" "How often do you stretch?"

I am NOT saying that this viewpoint was stated by anybody on this thread. But this sentiment IS out there. Pervasive when it comes to my students. Students love Victor Wooten. Not because he can groove, not because he's a supportive sideman, not because he writes, cool, unusual, interesting compositions, (he definitely can do all of these things), but because of that double thumping thing. Which I experimented with this afternoon, a little. (Hurts my forearm . . . ) I have to actually sit them down and introduce them to Pino Palladino, Willie Weeks, JAMES Freakin' JAMERSON!! (What's up with kids, man?)

Jacquo, (and I'm asking this honestly, with an open heart) is there anything else about my comments that you don't agree with? I suspect there is probably waaay more common ground between us on this topic than not. I can tell the wank'sters from the real players, and seeing your clips, you're the latter. This doesn't have to get ugly. I retracted the comment about the intent of the question. I hope you, too, understand that the intent of my other comments come with no excess baggage.

Glenn
 
#213
what the heck the thread was at the top of the list.

slap sounds great if three conditions are met:

1. there is feel, if you're just wanking and not putting some feel behind the technique, it sounds like crap.

2. it isn't over done. i was at my local GC last week, messing around with the schecter studio basses (mmm purty) just running through some blues progressions then messing around with "Money" and "Dazed and Confused" some guy was slapping 1k notes a minute behind me. i had two people come up and complimented me, which was cool since i just started playing. slap happy? he got funny looks.

and finally, slap will sound amazing if:

i'm not the one slapping, i just can't get the tone right:cool:
 
#214
Gyoon said:
I didn't mean for this to get nasty . . . I'm sorry, man.

I can't slap amazing, that's why. I'm proficient, at best. Not as good as you. I've seen your Youtube clips. I didn't ask the question about different settings for slap because I wanted to put people to shame. I asked it because there might, somewhere out there, be someone who can actually do it.

Using the example of Joe Osborn, who would have ever thought you can get that funky with a pick? It took him, for me anyways, to show me that, yeah, you can do it. Jaco with harmonics? Stanley Jordan with tapping? Gimmickry for most people, these guys made it an expressive and viable voice.

I wouldn't take any offense to my words. This question was asked to open dialogue. I feel like I have done that. Aside from the remark about the intent of the question (low blow, I humbly retract, I am sorry), everything else I have said, I stand behind. I guess with the last few posts, it just seemed like the real supporters of this technique were getting a little too smug. (that thing about 9% pf people hating it, but they are the vocal minority. That, I think was off base) There wasn't anybody to play devil's advocate. Hence, my statement about the different way the question could have been posed.

Another reason I don't like slap that much is because it seems its a false indicator of someones ability as a player. Kind of like dunking in the NBA. Fun? Hell, yeah. What's to hate? Can't base your game on it, though. Kind of like the bench press is to someone's overall level of fitness. "How much you bench?" Common question. It's never "what's your core strength?" "How's your lifting technique?" "How often do you stretch?"

I am NOT saying that this viewpoint was stated by anybody on this thread. But this sentiment IS out there. Pervasive when it comes to my students. Students love Victor Wooten. Not because he can groove, not because he's a supportive sideman, not because he writes, cool, unusual, interesting compositions, (he definitely can do all of these things), but because of that double thumping thing. Which I experimented with this afternoon, a little. (Hurts my forearm . . . ) I have to actually sit them down and introduce them to Pino Palladino, Willie Weeks, JAMES Freakin' JAMERSON!! (What's up with kids, man?)

Jacquo, (and I'm asking this honestly, with an open heart) is there anything else about my comments that you don't agree with? I suspect there is probably waaay more common ground between us on this topic than not. I can tell the wank'sters from the real players, and seeing your clips, you're the latter. This doesn't have to get ugly. I retracted the comment about the intent of the question. I hope you, too, understand that the intent of my other comments come with no excess baggage.

Glenn
Click to expand...

No Glenn in all honesty you and I are kool,I fully understand where you were coming from and I'm glad that there is no animosity between you and I.I just wanted to say that my poll was my poll for my reasons and one of them was not at all about attempting to validate a particular technique.

again you and I are kool.

I've used the technique that's the subject of this thread in various genres/musical settings one being when I spent time with Ornette Coleman.

and I love playing with a pick on occasion.

I put out a solo recording a while ago(Called The Low C# Theory)and a few people felt that I let them down because there was no slapping,plucking,thumping,popping any where on the recording,it was all pizzicato.

in regards to any technique that is applied to the Bass I'm still a student and I'll continue to be just that.
 
#215
Gyoon said:
Slap in merengue and salsa? I'm learning more already. What recordings? Are these recordings worthy of buying?

Glenn
Click to expand...
Yeah:
Willie Colon and Ruben Blades: SIEMBRA
Marc Anthony : Otra Nota and Contra La Corriente
have great salsa slap lines
Elvis Crespo is a merengue singer and his recordings also have great slap lines in merengue.
Check them out!:bassist:
 
#216
Another thought occurred to me today about this topic. In order for a slap player to "work" in a band context, he must first truly understand the style and be very confident in his ability to play it, as has been said.

Further, though, the rest of the band, and especially the drummer, also has to know how to play behind a slap line in order for it to groove. There is something special about the marriage between the bass drum and the bass when playing a slap line that just sounds great when it works. And the whole band really has to understand the intense combination of "busyness," syncopation, and space that makes slap grooves sound slick.

If all of the pieces don't fit together, the end product can sound sloppy.
 
#218
Up until very recently it was slappa-dappa-doo for me. I did it CONSTANTLY, on like 99% of band songs, my EQ was only ever for slap, I was obsessed by it, partly because I kept watching the Mark King solo on Basslobster :eek: . But you know, I have really started getting into jazzy stuff at the minute - Miles Davis, Stanley Clarke, fusion stuff like Return To Forever, and it has really altered my perspective on slap. I now have realised that while there are a million people who can slap the crap out of a bass, so that it sounds like a machine gun firing bouncy balls at a guitar, the real great players are the ones who use it sparingly but can also blow your mind with fingerstyle licks and beatiful melodic lines (Stan C comes to mind here). From now on I will use it when the time is right but will concentrate on great basslines and cool melody. After all, people go to gigs and listen to records to hear MUSIC, not to listen to some guy playing 300mph all night. I still think slapping can sound amazing, and I will still use it sometimes, but I am no longer obsessed by it :).
 
#219
I slap quite a bit, for quite a bit of reasons, in this order:

#1) I'm playing a cover tune that DEMANDS it.

#2) I slap to achieve the "attack", but style wise and from a standpoint of note selection and general shape of the bassline im "thinking" fingerstyle, IOW, not using the popping and octave jumping normally association with slap.

#3)Soloing. In some situations slap is a nice way to kick a solo whilst still keeping the groove going.

#4)I like to use slap as a "change-up" to accent the top of a solo, much like a drummer will switch from hi-hat to ride. Switching from fingerstyle to slap(or vise-versa) is a nice way to break-it up as long as you don't upset the groove too much.

#5)chicks dig it!

Slap is good for me. I like to slap.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back