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To those who only run their amps 'flat': why?
- Thread starter MrRobert
- Start date
With my home stereo..............yes, home stereo that almost everyone used to have but now almost nobody has anymore. I run my integrated amp flat. In fact, my stereo amp has no way of altering the frequencies. Most decent stereo amps no longer have tone controls. To hear the music from Cds and Lps as it was done in the studio, the amp needs to be set flat.
Now, as for bass amps. When I run my bass amp flat, it sounds mid range dominate and that equals a somewhat "nasal" sound to me which I do not like. So, I carve out a lot of the mids and I roll off the highs (to around 3,000 hz to 4,000 hz) because I play flats and for me, bass is all about the bass.
Now, when I play my Stingray.............it's gotta have the mids for that classic Stingray sound of "bark" and "growl". Thus, my amp is near flat (except) I still have the highs rolled off.
Finally, there are sort of....... 2 sounds for bass. The "living room" or "bedroom" sound with carved out mids. And then, there is the band practice or live on stage sound with the amp near flat. Gotta cut through! Mids cut through.
Bass amp settings are all about personal taste. The God of Bass doesn't command us to play flat.
Now, as for bass amps. When I run my bass amp flat, it sounds mid range dominate and that equals a somewhat "nasal" sound to me which I do not like. So, I carve out a lot of the mids and I roll off the highs (to around 3,000 hz to 4,000 hz) because I play flats and for me, bass is all about the bass.
Now, when I play my Stingray.............it's gotta have the mids for that classic Stingray sound of "bark" and "growl". Thus, my amp is near flat (except) I still have the highs rolled off.
Finally, there are sort of....... 2 sounds for bass. The "living room" or "bedroom" sound with carved out mids. And then, there is the band practice or live on stage sound with the amp near flat. Gotta cut through! Mids cut through.
Bass amp settings are all about personal taste. The God of Bass doesn't command us to play flat.
This is perfectly normal. Also, newer stock is usually at the back but you have to check the dates. Wiping down all your purchases when you get home is also normal.
This.
I don't have any expectation or aspiration of playing through my amp set flat.
But I'll choose my amp based on liking how it sounds set flat so that I'm left with a lot more room to tweak it to my desired end result, rather than using up most of the knob's range just to get it in the right ballpark.
Like @groovaholic (and probably others have said) I want an amp to sound good to me in its nominally "flat" condition. If I don't like the basic tone of the thing, no amount of EQ will change that. Once I'm past that, I adjust EQ and stuff so that it fits right in the room or meets a certain tonal goal. I have no issue with radical EQ settings if it gets me where I want to be tonally.
Wow, seven pages of response in less than 24 hours. could this be a TB record?
So I did not read all seven pages. Yet. But here is my take:
I run my EQ flat, with a little compression. But I like the sound of my amp (Eden) to start with. IMO any good, quality amp will sound good without much EQ adjustments. If a certain song requires for example - a little extra lows, I use the EQ on my bass, or more likely, simply adjust my playing technique. Certain rooms will require moderate EQing - usually in the lower frequencies. Excessive EQ setting generally speak to other issues. If you find yourself boosting or cutting in extreme amounts, then there is a good chance the problem lies elsewhere.
A good rule of thumb for amp settings (and PA channel strips) is to use equalization sparingly. Less is better. Over EQing points to other problems; cheap equipment, ignorance on how EQ and gain structure work, and / or inexperience.
It also holds true that some playing situations or music styles could require strange EQ setting to cope the sound necessary for good tone for that setting.
So I did not read all seven pages. Yet. But here is my take:
I run my EQ flat, with a little compression. But I like the sound of my amp (Eden) to start with. IMO any good, quality amp will sound good without much EQ adjustments. If a certain song requires for example - a little extra lows, I use the EQ on my bass, or more likely, simply adjust my playing technique. Certain rooms will require moderate EQing - usually in the lower frequencies. Excessive EQ setting generally speak to other issues. If you find yourself boosting or cutting in extreme amounts, then there is a good chance the problem lies elsewhere.
A good rule of thumb for amp settings (and PA channel strips) is to use equalization sparingly. Less is better. Over EQing points to other problems; cheap equipment, ignorance on how EQ and gain structure work, and / or inexperience.
It also holds true that some playing situations or music styles could require strange EQ setting to cope the sound necessary for good tone for that setting.
Seven pages into the thread, I can assume I will not contribute much new, but the basic premise I follow is:
* get an amp that you like flat, but has powerful EQ
* create your sound before the amp, and send that to the sound guy (pre-EQ DI out)
* use the amp EQ to adjust to room acoustics
This was the cheapest and most effective solution to all my sound problems playing live.
* get an amp that you like flat, but has powerful EQ
* create your sound before the amp, and send that to the sound guy (pre-EQ DI out)
* use the amp EQ to adjust to room acoustics
This was the cheapest and most effective solution to all my sound problems playing live.
i do because it sounds best,
i think the idea is that if the amp is well made, it should sound even across the spectrum when flat, and sound the way the player wants with only minimal tweaking.
if i had an amp that i thought needed to be set differently i would though... theres a reason all amps come with EQ..
i think the idea is that if the amp is well made, it should sound even across the spectrum when flat, and sound the way the player wants with only minimal tweaking.
if i had an amp that i thought needed to be set differently i would though... theres a reason all amps come with EQ..
I thought we had a few other people here who play tube amps? Flat probably means something on the typical active eq, but a lot of passive tone stacks don't really have flat in mind. On my YBA-1, the best approximation to flat would be mids all the way up, treble down at about 2-3 and bass about 3-4, probably with presence set low. Even then it probably has a small dip in the mids. But but I typically run the mids a bit lower and bass a bit higher.
Otto
Otto
I think the idea is that you should like the fundamental sound of the amp/speaker combo with EQ set relatively flat. That way, you can use the EQ to shape the sound either to adapt to the room you're playing in or to achieve a specific effect (e.g. scooped mids for funk slapping; boosted bass for R&B thump; bumped mids for fingerstyle growl).
If your amp has a fundamental sound that needs tons of EQ just to give you a good, basic tone, then you may run out of room.
If your amp has a fundamental sound that needs tons of EQ just to give you a good, basic tone, then you may run out of room.
I agree with that, I notice when adjusting my amp EQ settings it never ends up flat, I go by ear, set bass 1st around half, little more, 2nd my mids on cut/scooped side and past 1/2 way when need to cut through busy mix and treble more on the clear side because with all tube amp heads I like a fat, warm, smooth, punchy and clangy/clanky, clear, crisp sound all at the same time. Nothing like a all tube amp, Mesa and Ampeg, all tube amp for life that's me. As for flat EQ settings, never.
Jim Carr
Dr. Jim
- Jan 21, 2006
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I am quite aware of the tone of the P and Jazz bass directly to the board, and have recorded them that way for several decades. I don't think one can argue whether or not another person finds your "perfectly and wonderfully" to be rather dull. So perhaps by "not really," you meant, "not really, in my humble opinion?"
That's exactly the point: you need a preamp circuit just to get a sound, and that preamp circuit will have components that amplify sound in ways that have an effect on the frequencies you hear. If you don't set the EQ, and you're just leaving the EQ potentiometer at the middle of its throw, then you're just leaving your sound up to the (pre-)amp manufacturer's potentiometer choice. Did they pick a 250k or 500k potentiometer for their EQ section? What is the tolerance on those potentiometers? What's the taper on them? Middle position doesn't mean what anyone thinks it means. More to the point: if you are not setting your EQ, your amp manufacturer is setting it for you.
Hell, even the impedance relationship between your amp, your pickups, and the volume/tone pots inside your bass will change the resonant frequency of the system. (I switched my volume pots out 1M to get a more aggressive treble sound…once upon a time.) Your bass and amp selection is like an EQ setting.
So, when you say that you "don't need any EQ," that's a misnomer. Yes, you need EQ. You've just found a setting you like or you just don't care so much..
flat is one of the many possibilities to set an amp. I don't know how to read any more into it than that honestly.
I had an interesting experience with an GK MB150, whereby I decided to try plugging the bass (active) directly into the effects return; this bypasses the front end eq/compression circuits but is ahead of the master volume. I actually loved the sound. "Open, airy, with notes of mint and honey" 
Now, THAT is playing flat. At that point, the "equalizers" engaged were the player, speaker, room, and numerous whatever elses. In comparison, when using the front end of the amp, the MB150 was set to what is nominally considered flat with no boost/contour or compression engaged.
One advantage of playing with "flat" settings on at least decent gear, is that if you can achieve your sound without going to the eq of the amp/system, plugging into a system that isn't yours or going direct doesn't completely take your ability to achieve a suitable sound out of your control.
But let's not kid ourselves, even playing "flat" or direct into a power amp, we utilize so much "eq" with the instrument and our playing that whether or not anyone chooses to use or not use the amplifier eq doesn't suggest that they don't care about their sound. There just using the other "knobs" that are available to them.
In the end though, I agree with the sentiment that whatever works for you, do it.
Now, THAT is playing flat. At that point, the "equalizers" engaged were the player, speaker, room, and numerous whatever elses. In comparison, when using the front end of the amp, the MB150 was set to what is nominally considered flat with no boost/contour or compression engaged. One advantage of playing with "flat" settings on at least decent gear, is that if you can achieve your sound without going to the eq of the amp/system, plugging into a system that isn't yours or going direct doesn't completely take your ability to achieve a suitable sound out of your control.
But let's not kid ourselves, even playing "flat" or direct into a power amp, we utilize so much "eq" with the instrument and our playing that whether or not anyone chooses to use or not use the amplifier eq doesn't suggest that they don't care about their sound. There just using the other "knobs" that are available to them.
In the end though, I agree with the sentiment that whatever works for you, do it.
That's exactly the point: you need a preamp circuit just to get a sound, and that preamp circuit will have components that amplify sound in ways that have an effect on the frequencies you hear. If you don't set the EQ, and you're just leaving the EQ potentiometer at the middle of its throw, then you're just leaving your sound up to the (pre-)amp manufacturer's potentiometer choice. Did they pick a 250k or 500k potentiometer for their EQ section? What is the tolerance on those potentiometers? What's the taper on them? Middle position doesn't mean what anyone thinks it means. More to the point: if you are not setting your EQ, your amp manufacturer is setting it for you.
Hell, even the impedance relationship between your amp, your pickups, and the volume/tone pots inside your bass will change the resonant frequency of the system. (I switched my volume pots out 1M to get a more aggressive treble sound…once upon a time.) Your bass and amp selection is like an EQ setting.
So, when you say that you "don't need any EQ," that's a misnomer. Yes, you need EQ. You've just found a setting you like or you just don't care so much..
Yes, you put my thoughts in order.
I solve it on my bass, that's it.
Many times , most of , i go passive.
Some times , active.
i try to find a responsive sound for whatever music context brings.
I've seen the "flat settings whether it makes sense or not" attitude a lot on the faders side of the mixing desk. It seems to be a badge of honour among a certain group of techs to have everything looking as flat as possible, especially back in the days of hardware based EQs and outboard gear. "I hardly had to pull anything out of the graphic at all!" Well maybe you should have because 100Hz is killing everyone on the floor and there's enough 5kHz at FOH to make your eyeballs explode. 
Seriously, the EQ is there to help even out the response in the room, use it when it needs to be used.
Seriously, the EQ is there to help even out the response in the room, use it when it needs to be used.
