Tonewood Club

[Ric Vice]

I’m enjoying playing my instruments that are made from ash, maple, spruce, ebony and rosewood. Trees are wonderful things. We should
all be planting a few each growing season.

 

[BassyBill]

I don't think I could live in a world where there are basses made from guitarwood.

They’re all made of guitar wood. Unless they’re made of lovely, beautiful graphite.

 

[Barticus]

They’re all made of guitar wood. Unless they’re made of lovely, beautiful graphite.

Yep, like this

 

[BassyBill]

Yep, like this
View attachment 4716798

Beautiful instrument. I’m lucky enough to have a pair of those, fretted and fretless (both are four strings).

 

[Barticus]

Beautiful instrument. I’m lucky enough to have a pair of those, fretted and fretless.

Nice, I’ve looked for a used fretless for a couple of years without success. I bought this one direct from Rob, great basses.
And no tone wood to complain about

 

[Snert]

They’re all made of guitar wood. Unless they’re made of lovely, beautiful graphite.

But that's wood too. Really, really, really old wood that's been compressed for eons and pumped out of the ground in evil liquid form.

 

[BassyBill]

But that's wood too. Really, really, really old wood that's been compressed for eons and pumped out of the ground in evil liquid form.

Interesting observation. Check this out for the details.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[Turnaround]

Does anybody have links to anything remotely scientific that would prove/disprove tonewood? Discussion without properly researched data is akin to he said she said; damn near pointless.

I did that many many years ago. I cut various pieces of wood to the same size, mounted a set of tuners and a pickup on each in turn in the exact same position (same pickup, same tuners, same strings) and used a spectrum analyzer to examine the wave forms from the signal from the pickup. This is important because I was not measuring the vibration of the wood, but the signal from the pickup.

Different woods showed different frequency responses coming from the pickups across the audible spectrum. The reason was that different woods absorbed and reflected different vibrations at different frequencies and at different levels. That effected how the string vibrated - i.e. more of a certain frequency being absorbed by the wood means less of that energy at that frequency in the string. Since the string was the source of the energy, a loss of that energy by absorption into the wood means that energy is no longer in the string. The pickup "sees" that.

When you start adding or subtracting certain frequencies from a signal, you affect its tone.

If I can find my original research I will post it, but I'm afraid it might have gotten lost in one of my hard drive crashes. I back up my system regularly now.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Tonewood, well different woods, can matter somewhat in an electric instrument but is really low on the list of factors. Take a rosewood, maple and alder Precision, Jazz and MM bass and they all sound like a Precision, Jazz, or MM instrument because of their pickup and its placement on the instrument. You may be able to hear a small difference between, say, a maple fingerboard precision and a rosewood fingerboard precision, but the difference is more likely from the 10% variance permitted in pots.

 

[Barticus]

I did that many many years ago. I cut various pieces of wood to the same size, mounted a set of tuners and a pickup on each in turn in the exact same position (same pickup, same tuners, same strings) and used a spectrum analyzer to examine the wave forms from the signal from the pickup. This is important because I was not measuring the vibration of the wood, but the signal from the pickup.

Different woods showed different frequency responses coming from the pickups across the audible spectrum. The reason was that different woods absorbed and reflected different vibrations at different frequencies and at different levels. That effected how the string vibrated - i.e. more of a certain frequency being absorbed by the wood means less of that energy at that frequency in the string. Since the string was the source of the energy, a loss of that energy by absorption into the wood means that energy is no longer in the string. The pickup "sees" that.

When you start adding or subtracting certain frequencies from a signal, you affect its tone.

If I can find my original research I will post it, but I'm afraid it might have gotten lost in one of my hard drive crashes. I back up my system regularly now.

all jokes and kidding aside…. This is the most logical, plausible explanation I’ve read out of all of the 100s of noisy comments across multiple threads on this topic.

I think many of us here would love to see the research and resulting data if you can locate it.

 

[Turnaround]

all jokes and kidding aside…. This is the most logical, plausible explanation I’ve read out of all of the 100s of noisy comments across multiple threads on this topic.

We’d all love to see the research and resulting data if you can locate it.

I'll do my best to find the research.

To me there really is no debate about whether the wood has any effect on the sound. The real debate may be how much of a difference it makes. Is that difference audible? And even if it is audible, can you still hear it in the context of a performance with two guitarists, a keyboardist and a drummer all playing at once?

 

[GrapeBass]

To dismiss the affects of 'tone wood' would mean that all guitars sound exactly the same, regardless of their configurations. Does a Les Paul with single coil p/ups sound like a strat? does a Telecaster with hum buckers sound like a Les Paul? Wood is imperfect and varies in it's composition so even woods that are 'the same' or 'similar' behave differently in different conditions.

Body wood is only one contributing factor to the overall tone of an electric instrument. The neck is a significant part of that as is the attachment of the neck and the body. Then you can factor in the bridge, how it is mounted to the body and the string tension. P/ups and their placement, electronics, strings etc. All part of a system... how does it all go together and affect the 'tone?' What parts affect the over all tone more, or less.

 

[Epdo]

If I can find my original research I will post it, but I'm afraid it might have gotten lost in one of my hard drive crashes. I back up my system regularly now.

Fascinating stuff, I would love to read it. I hope it can be found.

 

[scuzzy]

I prefer to call it Timbre Timber

 

[Thumpin6string]

What I find interesting is that so many think that the wood has nothing to do with the tone, but they insist it comes from the fingers. Obviously, the definition of tone is NOT understood. Tone has to do with ALL aspects of the bass as well as the amp and effects. Fingers don't create tone. Let the argument begin.

 

[GrapeBass]

Discussing tonewood is akin to two Italian-Americans 'discussing' if its 'gravy' or 'sauce.' LMAO

 

[Barticus]

OK, I’ve never done this particular type of test but I’ve done a ton of systems testing, and user acceptance testing for software and IT systems and a similar and objective approach could be followed here…

if we truly want to end this endless debate and finally answer the question in an OBJECTIVE approach to remove ALL subjectivity, feelings, tribal knowledge (I know this wood is darker/brighter), but Jaco said, the Easter Bunny told me, yada yada.

Rather than attempting to “boil the ocean” and attempt remove subjectivity with an objective approach to this SINGLE question…

Q - Does wood by itself make a difference in the tone of the bass (not guitar, not acoustic, etc.) / not in a band setting, not on an outdoor stage, in a dive bar, etc.

The test should isolate all similarities and other components to be the same and only swap out the wood element in a consistent and repeatable process. For the first round of testing, let’s take this example approach:

Consistent elements in test #1

• The same neck wood and fingerboard wood (same neck swapped to each body) with the same tuners and the same nut material
• The same bridge (swapped to each body)
• The same pick ups, preamp and location on the body (swapped to each body)
• The same body type shape and size
• Have the same player, play the same composition for each body swap (yes this will be the only subjective component to this approach)
• for each test - record DI with no effects, patches, filters, EQ’ing, etc.
• the audio can then be analyzed/collared side-by-side for changes in frequency

Variable element #1

• Body wood sample number one
• Body wood sample number two
  
• Body wood sample number N
  
• All in the same body type shape and size

Test number two could then replace the body as the variable element with the neck wood fit test round #2.

Meaning that all of the consistent items above would have a consistent body type added to it. Then with a series of different neck woods and finger board wood combinations, run the tests again with the same player, same composition, etc. so that set of audio tracks could be analyzed and compared with the first set of sound samples.

The big question is, who has the resources, willingness, skills AND most importantly the time to go through and do a true scientific test and will stay true to the parameters throughout the process of testing these elements to answer this question once and for all?

Should we start a Go Fund Me page???
Should we contact Consumer Reports to see if they would be game to do this?

 

[littlebun]

I do know that each wood neck can have its particular resonance/response that's easily heard when swapping necks. I have many vintage and other Fender style necks and basses, and when I swap a neck it can sometimes be a dramatic tone change for a bass. Some necks have dead spots that others don't have, even though they are the same construction material. I feel the pickups and the neck are the most important. If I have a quality neck and pickups I've learned that the bass will usually sound decent no matter what body the neck is on. I know the body has some influence but how much (percentage)? I don't know. My instincts tell me the neck is most important.

 

[ColdEye]

Anyone who don't believe in tonewoods should compare two otherwise IDENTICAL basses where one has a maple body and the other has something more traditional like alder or mahogany. Of course all pieces of wood are different so there MIGHT always be unexpected results but every single maple body bass I've ever played has been extremely bright sounding when comparing to a similar type of bass with similar pickups/bridge/etc. Even just a maple laminate in the body can brighten the tone noticably in my experience.

A quick experiment (that I will NOT recommend anyone actually doing) is to SATURATE a rosewood fingerboard with oil, like REALLY overdoing it and hear what happens. It won't be good (and please don't ask me how I know this...). The natural oil content in rosewood clearly has an affect on the tone but too much oil and your tone will suffer. Mass/density matters.

Personally I think tonewood matters even more with things that aren't really about "tone" but stuff like dead spots, sustain and most importantly having an even response along the neck. It's all about mass/density and the distribution of the mass in the body/neck. Different pieces of wood will have a different density and also a different distribution of mass.

Have you ever tried attaching a Fat finger to your headstock and hear the dead spots shift a couple of frets? This difference can not be explained in ANY other way than adding mass to the headstock. Density/mass DOES matter and different types of wood have different density. Even between two pieces of wood from the same species, which of course means that it's not just about different TYPES of wood but the QUALITY of the wood.

Some people seem to think you can mount the strings between a workbench and a shelf, stick a pickup under them and get the same tone as using the same pickup/hardware with a top quality guitar (someone posted a video about this a while back). I can only say I'm shocked that so many people didn't seem to hear the hideous, ringing overtones as the tones sustained with that "shelf guitar".

Of course the neck/body matters, even with a solid body electric. The body and neck affects how the strings vibrate and which frequencies are affenuated the most. Sure, it matters even more in an acoustic but acoustics are completely different designs. With an acoustic the soundboard is the "amplifier". With electrics is more about which frequencies are attenuated by the neck/body. That doesn't mean it won't affect the tone, or even that it's negligible. The pickup doesn't generate sound on it's own. It picks up the vibration of the strings and if anyone says the mass of the body/neck won't affect the vibration of the strings they need to learn a thing or two about basic physics.

So in a blind test, can you actually tell which one has the maple vs rosewood board??

 

[Ric Vice]

...............Different woods showed different frequency responses coming from the pickups across the audible spectrum. The reason was that different woods absorbed and reflected different vibrations at different frequencies and at different levels. That effected how the string vibrated - i.e. more of a certain frequency being absorbed by the wood means less of that energy at that frequency in the string. Since the string was the source of the energy, a loss of that energy by absorption into the wood means that energy is no longer in the string. The pickup "sees" that.

When you start adding or subtracting certain frequencies from a signal, you affect its tone.

If I can find my original research I will post it, but I'm afraid it might have gotten lost in one of my hard drive crashes. I back up my system regularly now.

Thank you for some valuable information, I seem to remember that when the folks at Gibson were figuring out the shapes for the Firebird, Flying V, and Explorer guitars, they did some weird experiments where

they ran frequencies through iron filings and some how came up with those shapes for their new (at the time) guitars. This may just be a folk story that has no basis in any facts. Whether the woods they used

were "frequency tested" I don't know, but the Flying V's and Explorers used Korina which is related to Mahogany.