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Too Many Notes?

#101
i tend not to embellish when i play classic rock or simple rock as i feel extra notes rarely serve the song if it's being played original-style and not extra crispy. but if you're getting paid to play or are trying to get called back to a club to play again, the bottom line is probably audience response. if they're energetic, dancing and cheering, well, that's a good sign. the guitarist handed me the solo for "i want to be your dog", and i did get a bit busy with it - next thing you know, everyone is cheering and yelling "bass, bass, bass!", so i figured it was working. i played the verses and choruses more simply, but had fun with that solo. when we were done, though, people came over to tell us our band rocked :)
 
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#107
Off the top of my head, two Classic Rock songs that employ tastefully busy lines are Gimme Three Steps and Long Train Running. I seem to remember lots of Classic Rock songs being that way, so I don't see how chord tones would seem too active to people? Idk, I'm a 28 year old so I can't say I run in the Classic Rock circle outside of jamming in my room. Grunge rock made me hate playing roots only, but I can suffer through to make sure the song sounds right. Still confused at how chord tones wouldn't fit in Classic Rock
 
#109
KevInDaBassment said:
Off the top of my head, two Classic Rock songs that employ tastefully busy lines are Gimme Three Steps and Long Train Running. I seem to remember lots of Classic Rock songs being that way, so I don't see how chord tones would seem too active to people? Idk, I'm a 28 year old so I can't say I run in the Classic Rock circle outside of jamming in my room. Grunge rock made me hate playing roots only, but I can suffer through to make sure the song sounds right. Still confused at how chord tones wouldn't fit in Classic Rock
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Radar love?

On the other end of things, I heard a young bassist do Hotel California playing only root whole notes. SMH as he did it with (undeserved) attitude.

Nothing is absolute, just don't be a dick.
 
#113
I think if somebody says your bass playing is too busy, you should take it seriously, and assume that they are responding to something real. But what exactly is that something?

A bass line can sound too busy. But as many on this thread have observed, that is not necessarily because there are too many notes being played. The accurate rhythmic placement of each note's attack and end can make a huge difference, and sometimes concentrating on this will cause a "busy" sounding line to suddenly snap into place and sound great. Timbre is also very important. If Chris Squire played a JAmes Jamerson line with his usual Yes tone, it would probably sound ridiculously busy.

So I feel there are three general areas You might change:
1) actually change the number or rhythms of the notes you are playing.
2) change the placement and articulation of each note. Rocco plays lots of notes but the attack is very accurate, and each note is muted just right so its sustain doesn't get in the way of other instruments, or disrupt the groove.
3) change your timbre. You could scoop the mids, roll off the highs, boost/cut the lows, change where you pluck the strings, switch from pick to fingers, palm mute, etc.

Some combination of the above suggestions will fix the busy sound, but it's a very individual thing. The same line played by two players might sound busy for one and perfect for the other. Like anything else, it's something you learn to do as you become a better player.

One more thing.
I am one of those tone-obsessed players. If my sound isn't right, I don't play as well. Part of that is that I hear timbre as part of the groove. When my sound is good, whole and half notes sound wonderful, and I have no problem playing 1-5 all night long. If my sound is thin and clacky (due to my technique, the room, the amp, whatever), that's when I am tempted to play more notes to fill in what seems to be missing. So sometimes, getting your sound "right" can fix what other people think they are hearing. Easier said than done of course, but maybe thinking in those terms might help.
 
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#114
One more thing.
I am one of those tone-obsessed players. If my sound isn't right, I don't play as well. Part of that is that I hear timbre as part of the groove. When my sound is good, whole and half notes sound wonderful, and I have no problem playing 1-5 all night long. If my sound is thin and clacky (due to my technique, the room, the amp, whatever), that's when I am tempted to play more notes to fill in what seems to be missing. So sometimes, getting your sound "right" can fix what other people think they are hearing. Easier said than done of course, but maybe thinking in those terms might help.[/QUOTE]

This is the most important thing to me. I was reminded of this last night - went to a local blues jam, the comments/compliments I got from people about my playing were about two things - tone and time. I like playing fills like everyone does (and at a jam you're pretty much free to do what you want), but to other players the two T's are what count. And there were a few really great players there.

Last time I was at that same jam, there was another bass player there who really mystified me. If he played straight, he sounded fine. But he kept dropping in these double-stops and other fills - and playing them slightly off the beat!

Lots of great advice on this thread - thanks OP for posting it. I think that for all bass players (and for that matter for drummers) its really important to constantly be aware of the role that we play in supporting the overall sound of the music that we are part of. If we don't sound good, and if our time is off, everyone else sounds bad.
 
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#115
FirewalZ said:
OK, so Im in a "Classic Rock" band that is doing well at the moment. I have on occasion been "accused" of playing too many notes or too busy, this is usually from older guys who came of age in the 60's (I'm 44) so I've always assumed they simply have a different idea of what a "bass" should or should not be doing. Now I dont tap, almost never slap, but I do play more "chord" tones and cross over into counter melody at times. My response is usually something like, "while I 100% agree with and promote the "less is more" approach, I am first of all a musician, I play the whole instrument and am simply playing what comes out". I am certainly am not flying off the handle soloing all night long, however I am always grooving, and in this setting, possibly just a bit more of a dominant player than what some are expecting from "just the bass player". I am not trying to be busy or simple just me. Anyone else have this problem or have heard this as well?
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I'm a little older than you and in years past I would venture off into 'self expression' in my classic rock cover bands as well. Then I realized that very, very few people are paying attention to what I, as the bass player was doing, and most of them don't even know that there IS a bass player and think I'm just playing a funny looking guitar. Besides, the sound man is probably burying me in the mix and I am not being paid by the note after all. I remembered going to a concert with a drummer friend of mine in the 80s and the opening band had a bass player that pretty much stuck to the root, but played with confidence and authority. The drummer looked at me and said that he loved the way this guy just laid back and "pumped bass". So, I decided to do what at one time I might have considered lazy, but now think of as just doing my job...no more no less. I just lay back and pump bass.
 
#116
smeet said:
......
One more thing.
I am one of those tone-obsessed players. If my sound isn't right, I don't play as well. Part of that is that I hear timbre as part of the groove. When my sound is good, whole and half notes sound wonderful, and I have no problem playing 1-5 all night long. If my sound is thin and clacky (due to my technique, the room, the amp, whatever), that's when I am tempted to play more notes to fill in what seems to be missing. So sometimes, getting your sound "right" can fix what other people think they are hearing. Easier said than done of course, but maybe thinking in those terms might help.
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This is very insightful, I have mentally noticed the same effect as well. If its a well tuned room and the bass is warm and articulate, simpler, lighter and longer notes sound great. If i'm getting a muffled or boxy sound, I find myself playing harder and more.
 
#117
6 pages later...if it's classic rock covers, you should be emulating what's on the records more or less.

There's a wide swath of classic rock that calls for busy bass lines. Starting in the late 60s, bass playing got busier overall (Jack Bruce, Jack Casady, Phil Lesh, John Entwistle, John Paul Jones, etc. plus all the soul and funk players) and stayed that way until punk and new wave reset the goalposts in the late 70s and early 80s.
 
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#118
As others have said, it's subjective and each song is its own situation. Although it would have been perfectly serviceable, "The Real Me" would be a different song with a really basic bass line. Rain by The Beatles, Smokin' by Boston, are a few more that have a busy bass part that I think makes the song better, but isn't needed. Most Iron Maiden probably would seem busy, but I personally like Steve's aggressive style, galloping, and weaving into the melody a good bit, but to some people that would be overplaying.
 
#119
It all depends on the situation and what the musicians are going for, I believe it takes a real balance, communication and understanding for a band to function properly when it comes to everyones role in the band. In my opinion, Entwistle was able to play the way that he did in the Who because of the solid rhythm playing of Townshend. Entwistle is just as important to the sound of the Who as Cliff Williams is to AC/DC. Try playing like Entwistle in an AC/DC song and it just doesn't work (or doesn't sound like AC/DC anymore) Jack Bruce's playing in Cream is another example of a bass player playing a lot but that was the style they were going for. It all depends on what the band is going for...AC/DC could have had a bass player who played a lot of notes but that was not the sound they were going for.
 
#120
bopeuph said:
This is the excuse people give when they're told they're too busy. "Vic plays more notes than this," or, "have you ever heard Larry Graham? That's what he would do!" It's actually an immature reaction. If you play what you want to play, you do what the guys you mentioned did: you either create your own project band or you find a bandleader that's looking for that. If you're being hired to "play bass," and the bandleader doesn't like the busy playing, that's his decision.
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You read a lot into my post that wasn't there. That's an immature reaction. ;)

i guess I erroneously thought that common sense would dictate that you find a compatible project, not try to force your style on an unwilling band. Kind of like Squire, Geddy, Entwhistle did. Hired gun is an entirely different subject. You ALWAYS play what the person paying your salary tells you too.
 
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