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Trace Elliot is stepping up...By going small.....

Sir, you were the one who brought up the 1500 watt limit and 16 gauge speaker wire and 1/4" connectors. My comments just show that less than 1500 watts might certainly require more robust cable and connections.

Also, you are either unaware of, or intentionally neglecting the issue of bridged output topology which includes most class D amps on the market. This topology places 1/2 the voltage swing on the sleeve shell) of the 1/4" connector (with respect to ground). This is in fact dangerous on high powered amps and is a violation of UL, CSA and CB Scheme regulations. This is why we see SpeakOn connectors on the larger amps.

Just because you don't agree with the facts doesn't mean the facts are wrong or don't exist.
 
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Sir? LOL, sure, whatever.
You called me pedantic, so rather than addressing you as ma'am, I chose the more accurate (presumably?) sir instead.

I'm all about accuracy, I don't perpetuate inaccuracies, falsehoods, myths or alternate facts.
 
Anybody seen anything about whether or not this will run on 240v? Those of us outside the US wanna know ...

Absolutely, and can be converted back and forth without much effort, though it would be best done by a tech.

It's also designed to handle AUS high line which is around 270vac.
Thanks for your input so far. Is the new Trace gear going to reach the EU/UK that you know of (assuming you've left Peavey..)?
Seems sacrilege we might not be able to get this easily! :(
 
Sir, you were the one who brought up the 1500 watt limit and 16 gauge speaker wire and 1/4" connectors. My comments just show that less than 1500 watts might certainly require more robust cable and connections.

Also, you are either unaware of, or intentionally neglecting the issue of bridged output topology which includes most class D amps on the market. This topology places 1/2 the voltage swing on the sleeve shell) of the 1/4" connector (with respect to ground). This is in fact dangerous on high powered amps and is a violation of UL, CSA and CB Scheme regulations. This is why we see SpeakOn connectors on the larger amps.

Just because you don't agree with the facts doesn't mean the facts are wrong or don't exist.
just wondering is this new TE amp dangerous and a violation of UL ? Is there a point at which a "larger amp" is determined and will this amp be "allowed" in other countries without a SpeakOn ?
 
just wondering is this new TE amp dangerous and a violation of UL ? Is there a point at which a "larger amp" is determined and will this amp be "allowed" in other countries without a SpeakOn ?
There is a point, where the peak or DC voltage that is accessible or touchable (by the definition of the safety organizations) is greater than 35V as covered under UL/IEC 60065. This is especially important with bridged output topologies.

I haven't seen it, nor would I comment specifically on somebody else's product but since this is one of Bobby's products, my personal opinion is that he has proven beyond any doubt his mastery of product design to these standards.
 
Solving 35v with ohms law at 100% duty that looks like a 300w amp when it starts to clip.
Based on unloaded voltage swing at the standard "high line" power condition. Don't forget to convert peak to RMS as the test looks at peak voltage but the amps are rated using RMS voltage (for the purposes of testing, not always marketing of course)
 
Having run across a few of Amper's posts in the effects forum... I find it hilarious that this person could call anyone else pedantic.

Please don't get me wrong, I have great respect and appreciation for anyone that can make informed contributions to these forums. Amper is definitely one of those folks.

It is interesting though, how somebody who is so technically savvy can be a little socially shortsighted. In this case, what was the point of calling someone out for being "pedantic" in a thread discussing the technical aspects of a piece of equipment? Especially when even their own posts have been a bit gratuitously technical.
 
Based on unloaded voltage swing at the standard "high line" power condition. Don't forget to convert peak to RMS as the test looks at peak voltage but the amps are rated using RMS voltage (for the purposes of testing, not always marketing of course)
you lost me. Revising, a clean unclipped sine has 0.71 of the peak as it's RMS value, half the RMS watts so are you saying an honestly rated amp would be no more than 150w and there is a bit of marketing fudge around the ''continous'' 200w of the ELF if it doesn't need speakon?
 
you lost me. Revising, a clean unclipped sine has 0.71 of the peak as it's RMS value, half the RMS watts so are you saying an honestly rated amp would be no more than 150w and there is a bit of marketing fudge around the ''continous'' 200w of the ELF if it doesn't need speakon?
Specifically, it's the voltage above or below ground, accessable with respect to ground. So, for amp that is BTL and swings 35 volts peak above ground (I'm using the BTL as the example because it's become the most common, though not exclusive, topology for the smaller lightweight amps), as the voltage swings above ground on the tip it swings equally negative below ground on the sleeve of the jack/plug. The following does not apply to non-BTL topology amps.

The rough calculations for BTL only would be:

peak-peak = 2 x 35V peak = 70V peak-peak

RMS = 70 x .707 = 50V RMS

Power = V**2/R = at 4 ohms for 50VRMS = 625 watts (in practice it would be about 15-20% lower due to losses and unloaded hi line testing reqts. making 500 watts the practical limit for BTL)

But (and this is the elephant in the room) some jurisdictions consider the tip terminal inside the 1/4" jack to be accessable because of the touch-probe test to a adjacent speaker plug's shell so in this case the 35V would apply to the tip to sleeve voltage and 35 volts peak only would apply, thus the RMS voltage under this jursidiction would be 35V x .707 = 25 VRMS and the power at 4 ohms would be 150 watts. With 2 jacks, this is a plausable issue but pmore likely not with 1 jack.

The problem is in how strict and literal the inspectors interpret the code section, because the code is literal but the interpretation is not... and different countries interpret things differently too. Most of the safety agency engineers that I have worked with over the decades have been of the more strict variety, which is understandable since the whole idea of the regulations is to improve public safety... and they are getting stricter all the time. Because of this, I personally tend towards being conservative as that is the inspector friendly course. Nobody wants to piss off the inspector, an important lesson best learned as a young lad. ;)

Engineering is not always an exact science. This is taught over and over again in school, and it's most easily demonstrated in the mechanical engineering world by having a cooridinate system that is not static but moves and spins with its own set of equations that describe its motion. If the coordinate system moves through space exactly the same as the object being studied, the object is standing still WITH RESPECT TO THE COORDINATE SYSTEM, and somebody standing on that coordinate system will swear that the object is not moving yet the person who is standing on the static coordinate system is certain that the object is moving.

I went through this example to show how difficult even the simplest appearing issues can be.
 
For most of my life there was no such thing as a speakon connector. They only started being implemented in the mid 90s. I played my Acoustic360 and my GK rb800 for years with 1/4 plugs and im still slive and nothing blew up. Dont most speakins take a 1/4 as well ? Whats the big deal ?
most of us never got run down while crossing the street. Amp fault is a bit like the drunk driver. Speakon is your pedestrian underpass.

Some speakons take 1/4 but I think not many on amps and none on high power amps.
 
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The front cover of the 1995 catalogue. This is how you advertise bass gear with women properly.

For many years, a V-Type half-stack of what is in this picture was my main gigging rig. I still miss it, but at my age, I can no longer lift a 110 lb. 4x12 cabinet and a 60 lb. tube head.

View attachment 1035757

I remember this catalogue! I was 14/15 at the time!
 
200W RMS into 4 ohms is a little over 7 amps RMS, and 1/4" heavy duty connectors can handle 15 amps RMS.

Show me the design flaw. At this power level, it's not likely a bridged design.

Because at this point, speakon is the industry standard. I expect for most people, this is not going to be their primary head - most likely a backup. It shouldn't require additional equipment. Further, a speakon could just as easily been used.
 
For most of my life there was no such thing as a speakon connector. They only started being implemented in the mid 90s. I played my Acoustic360 and my GK rb800 for years with 1/4 plugs and im still slive and nothing blew up. Dont most speakins take a 1/4 as well ? Whats the big deal ?
Neither of these amps are BTL or high powered by today's standards. Also, the safety standards were quite different back then.