I agree with you. I think I was misunderstood. The band should always play in the key the singer wants to sing the song.
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Transposing to adapt covers to singer OK?
- Thread starter Shardik
- Start date
I agree with you. I think I was misunderstood. The band should always play in the key the singer wants to sing the song.
Some songs sound fine transposed, others don't. You just have to make the call, but if it isn't comfortable for the singer then either transpose it or don't do it.
Transpose, obviously or don't play it.
AC/DC, Rush, etc. all have transposed some of their songs they play live over the years as their singers have gotten older.
If the tune REALLY has to be played in a certain key and the singer can't reach it, then you don't play it. Nothing worse than straining to hit the high notes and also potentially hurting vocal chords.
That's the beauty of music, people of lower vocal registers can still sing the same song when it's transposed.
AC/DC, Rush, etc. all have transposed some of their songs they play live over the years as their singers have gotten older.
If the tune REALLY has to be played in a certain key and the singer can't reach it, then you don't play it. Nothing worse than straining to hit the high notes and also potentially hurting vocal chords.
That's the beauty of music, people of lower vocal registers can still sing the same song when it's transposed.
This.
Absolute positions of "anyone who can't transpose is an idiot" and "songs cannot be transposed without losing their effect" are both equally wrong. And equally right, too, of course. It's situational; sometimes transposing works, sometimes it doesn't. If it works, fine, and if it doesn't, drop the song and move on.
I have repeatedly suggested having everything go down a half step just so we dont have to change guitars during a gig. It was met with more resistance than I cared to deal with. Singer wants it a whole step.
Fine with me though because that gives me an excuse to play both my bases every show!
First thing I learned when changing a song key after you have it under your fingers where it flows without thinking.
Practice does not make perfect, practice makes permanent.
It's MUCH tougher to relearn a song than it is to learn it the first time.
It's the same for me trying to learn to pick a song I've played forever with my fingers. Not that I 'm worth much with a pick as it is, but if it's a song I know well with my fingers? Forget it with a pick. I've tried and tried and tied and I always wind up giving up and furiously running through the thing with my fingers just to prove I can still actually do it.
Granted, there are some songs that don't sound right if you transpose them, but they are few and far between, and unless you are a tribute band who goes for the look, mannerisms, etc., and your vocalist is having trouble hitting the mark, drop the song and find one that better fits their range. Considering there is a mecaquintillion songs to choose from, if it comes down to a hurt ego because someone really loves to solo in a particular song but the singer risks potential harm to their pipes to do that song and changing the key kills the appeal of the song, I'm with the singer
Oh and BTW, I've played in bands where the singer could only work in one key so EVERYTHING was in the same key all night long.
Practice does not make perfect, practice makes permanent.
It's MUCH tougher to relearn a song than it is to learn it the first time.
It's the same for me trying to learn to pick a song I've played forever with my fingers. Not that I 'm worth much with a pick as it is, but if it's a song I know well with my fingers? Forget it with a pick. I've tried and tried and tied and I always wind up giving up and furiously running through the thing with my fingers just to prove I can still actually do it.
Granted, there are some songs that don't sound right if you transpose them, but they are few and far between, and unless you are a tribute band who goes for the look, mannerisms, etc., and your vocalist is having trouble hitting the mark, drop the song and find one that better fits their range. Considering there is a mecaquintillion songs to choose from, if it comes down to a hurt ego because someone really loves to solo in a particular song but the singer risks potential harm to their pipes to do that song and changing the key kills the appeal of the song, I'm with the singer
Oh and BTW, I've played in bands where the singer could only work in one key so EVERYTHING was in the same key all night long.
I would agree with sometimes you need to in order for the vocalist to maintain his or her range on the other hand some songs as mention will not give you the same feel (open string tuning) Richards played Jumpin Jack Flash in open E and another good example of this Statesboro Blues in open E tuning but in the key of D. Barring all the strings play with a slide either you do it or you drop the song
These black and white answers a great for some songs/genres. No so for others.
Let's say your singer wants to do "Don't Stop Believing" by Journey. But he sings bass to low tenor. He wants to drop it from E maj to A maj. That song will sound dumb. It won't sound anything like the original. The piano intro will sound like a funeral march. The vocals will sound like Pat Boone (No More Mr. Nice Guy).
So simply saying "The singer picks the key" or "Whatever key the singer wants is what you play..... period." is NOT good enough.
It depends on the song.
Let's say your singer wants to do "Don't Stop Believing" by Journey. But he sings bass to low tenor. He wants to drop it from E maj to A maj. That song will sound dumb. It won't sound anything like the original. The piano intro will sound like a funeral march. The vocals will sound like Pat Boone (No More Mr. Nice Guy).
So simply saying "The singer picks the key" or "Whatever key the singer wants is what you play..... period." is NOT good enough.
It depends on the song.
Country musician's use the Nashville Numbering System to learn songs so they can play any song in any key.
Hey, Mellow,
Who makes that pedal?
Seems to be the way to go so the git player can keep the same fingering.
I freelance with a ton of different singers. I have to play tunes in 3 or 4 different keys. Crazy to keep it all straight sometime. Some tunes can be a bit more difficult than others, if you have to totally change the location of the pattern/fingering on the neck, but that is part of the game.
Pretty common, all singers have different ranges. For most tunes, no big deal, since they fall within most singer's ranges. For others, you have to take them down (or, on rare occasions where, for example, a female is singing a tune originally done by a male) up!
Shouldn't really matter.
- Jan 27, 2010
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- Endorsing Artist: Genz Benz Amplification
In addition to fronting my own band (country/rock) I also sub for other bands quite a bit, so i'm on both sides.
There are some songs I sing that I change the key, but I try to do things in the album key whenever possible, and here's why.
It's pretty rare that I need to RAISE the key of a song. If I do the guitarist can just slap a capo on and go to town. But lowering a key can sometimes cause real problems with chord voicings.
Say we're doing a tune in G, it's a 1 5 4 1, based around open position chords G D and C. I need it dropped a whole step to F. Now it's F C and Bb. Not really harder to play, but now you have two barre chords, changing the voicings and timbre of the chords, and it just doesn't sound right. You could capo 1st fret and play E B A, maybe a little better, but now the 5 chord doesn't sound right. It can also cause problems if the song has certain arpeggiated patterns that are a signature part of the song.
So technically the key can be changed, but it will sound a bit different. Sometimes it's no big deal, and sometimes it's different enough that I choose to either suck it up and either sing it in the original key that I'm less comfortable in, or admit that I can't sing that song and have it sound right, so I don't do it.
There are some songs I sing that I change the key, but I try to do things in the album key whenever possible, and here's why.
It's pretty rare that I need to RAISE the key of a song. If I do the guitarist can just slap a capo on and go to town. But lowering a key can sometimes cause real problems with chord voicings.
Say we're doing a tune in G, it's a 1 5 4 1, based around open position chords G D and C. I need it dropped a whole step to F. Now it's F C and Bb. Not really harder to play, but now you have two barre chords, changing the voicings and timbre of the chords, and it just doesn't sound right. You could capo 1st fret and play E B A, maybe a little better, but now the 5 chord doesn't sound right. It can also cause problems if the song has certain arpeggiated patterns that are a signature part of the song.
So technically the key can be changed, but it will sound a bit different. Sometimes it's no big deal, and sometimes it's different enough that I choose to either suck it up and either sing it in the original key that I'm less comfortable in, or admit that I can't sing that song and have it sound right, so I don't do it.
Hey, Mellow,
Who makes that pedal?
Seems to be the way to go so the git player can keep the same fingering.
He's probably referring to the Morpheous(sp?) pedal, if I were to guess...
- georgestrings
Regarding the OP - it's not uncommon for working cover bands to play a 1/2 step or even a whole step down from standard tuning... Also, any decent musician *should* be able to transpose, given adequate notice for prep - and really good musicians can transpose alot of stuff on the fly... Lastly, IME/IMO some songs work well when transposed, others not so much - but if the singer can't sing it comfortably, something has to give - either the key, or the song...
- georgestrings
- georgestrings
I'd probably put the capo on 5th and play C,F,G or 3rd and play D,G,A. Many options if you want to. But it may very well sound bland due to voicing issues or the vocals sounding meh.
Funny, I've played in bands with guys who refuse to transpose to suit a singer but never seemed to have any issue playing a Hendrix or SRV song in standard E.
Works great for guitars, vocals, and electronic keys, but doesn't work well at all for, say, saxophones.
The capo only tunes up and transposing to suit a singer's voice nearly always is in the other direction.
So put the capo on backwards so it transposes down. Do I have to think of EVERYthing??
