While there is presently no official 1212/6 T3W, there are suggestions on how to proceed on page 3 of the main project pdf.
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True 3-way fEARful bass enclosures
- Thread starter 12bass
- Start date
Well, there is certainly room for different tonal preferences. Some people will find the CBG more to their liking. IIRC, the 4 kHz cone breakup peak is something like 10 dB above nominal. I sometimes play a 4001 with roundwounds into a driven SVP-PRO and haven't found the T3W to be a problem. IMO, it makes those grindy highs less "spikey", smoother, and easier to control. Plus, the tweeter has a much broader dispersion pattern in that range. You can still dial in more aggression if you want.
Saying what you did about the LF driver... if you could swap out your Fearful for a Fearless, no cost... would you?
Jim Carr
Dr. Jim
- Jan 21, 2006
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Hard to say, but for me it was confusing as to which was which. 18 Sound? XD 125? 6NM410? Horn? Driver?
Lions and Tigers and Bears, Oh my!
When I asked Ron which components I had he said 18 Sound. It took me a while to realize that he meant all 3 parts, the mid-driver, the high-frequency driver, and the horn.
Thus, I have the Eighteen Sound XD 125 High Frequency Horn and Driver, with an Eighteen Sound 6" 6NM410 midrange driver, all crossed-over with the CBG design.
I'm sure the T3W is fine. I was rather referring to many traditional cab manufacturers two-way designs.
That's precisely what I meant by "tradition 2-way." I've done the 2-way thing for a long time, and have done the 3-way thing for just about as long. Over the last year I've been rehearsing at a place that supplies a cheap Acoustic 410 (the GC model). When I rehearse on that, and then switch to my 15/6/1, I can definitely tell that it's more "correct" from an engineering perspective, but it's been leaving me wanting. I know Ken went through the same thing when he tried the 3-way executions. I won't be getting rid of my 15/6/1, but it's rapidly becoming my second choice cabinet. My hope is that the T3W will fix some of the things I dislike about it (mainly the nasty sounding upper mids), but I don't expect it to change it to something it's not.
Sure... FWIW, I find the T3W 15/6/1 better with grindy tones than my Eden D-210XST. With the Eden, that sort of tone might demand turning the tweeter down or off. That's also an option with the T3W, though the tweeter implementation sounds much smoother overall. Still, it is not going to sound like an old EV or JBL 15"....
IMO, it essentially solves the aggressive upper midrange issue.
Kind of contradicted myself there.... To clarify, with the tweeter rolled off, the T3W may sound a bit like an old 15"... with the highs rolled off somewhat. I think the T3W midrange LPF is set around 3.5 kHz in order to tame the cone's ~4 kHz resonant peak.
Which is basically what I was expecting. It'll give me a reason to keep the cab in case a scenario where that tone is preferable comes about, or I want to run a keyboard or electronic drums/drum machine into it.
Well hell I thought they used the non lf so the tighter lows is all in the box size?
I built a pair of 15/6/1's back around 2009. I decided to run the horns separate from the CBG crossover. I ran the horns on my GK 1001 rb 2's high side, which gave plenty of power from 5k up.
The next time I got the fearful build bug, (seems to come on in the late winter) I built a 12/6 cube with the alpha 6 mid, no horn. I used the CBG crossover, which was even easier to build since it didn't need a L pad.
The 12/6 became my main cab. One night, due to a snafu, I couldn't get my 12/6 to a gig, and I took the 15/6/1. That's when I really noticed how much hotter my 18 sound mids were. Nothing I couldn't eq, but I got me thinking about whether my crossovers's L pad was working as it should, and how smooth my 12/6 sound.
I'm building another cube at the moment, and I'm looking forward to reworking the crossovers in the 15/6/1's to true three ways while I'm building the CBG for the cube.
Thanks to the guys who worked out the true threeway!
I'll get the parts from Leland, and with some adult supervision, I should be able use my true three ways for PA.
The next time I got the fearful build bug, (seems to come on in the late winter) I built a 12/6 cube with the alpha 6 mid, no horn. I used the CBG crossover, which was even easier to build since it didn't need a L pad.
The 12/6 became my main cab. One night, due to a snafu, I couldn't get my 12/6 to a gig, and I took the 15/6/1. That's when I really noticed how much hotter my 18 sound mids were. Nothing I couldn't eq, but I got me thinking about whether my crossovers's L pad was working as it should, and how smooth my 12/6 sound.
I'm building another cube at the moment, and I'm looking forward to reworking the crossovers in the 15/6/1's to true three ways while I'm building the CBG for the cube.
Thanks to the guys who worked out the true threeway!
I'll get the parts from Leland, and with some adult supervision, I should be able use my true three ways for PA.
Yep, the fearless cabs are the same LF driver just smaller volume and different porting.
Also fearless is authorized builder only.
The CBG lets the mid run wild on the top end [no low pass filter] and this can indeed be shrill if you use the 18-Sound 6ND410 or 6MN410 for the mid - and this is not only for subjective reasons of what some find useful versus what others find troublesome but also in large part because the resonance peak of the mid can vary quite a bit between specific examples of those drivers - this is because its a non-linear event arising from a collapse of controlled behavior = the cone has a seizure and that event will vary in expression based on tiny differences between a pair of drivers and the 6xx410 is a pretty hot unit so when it loses its poopie, the cone gets pretty hinky. This is not true under controlled use = low pass the mid below the cone's self-resonance and the driver is very consistent when measuring various examples [too the degree both versions use the same xover parts]. This is IMO a big part of why some folks find the mid resonance peak of the CBG + 6xx410 a lot more troublesome than others - it is not a consistent event from driver to driver so you and I may well not be getting the same behavior out of a pair of cabs we believe to be equivalent... because they aren't.
I have not measured the Alpha mids but I gather these more sedate drivers don't get near as furry as the 18-sound options under any conditions = you'll burn one long before you get it to flail around like a 6xx410 on HF overload.
For a first guess you need to adjust the woof xover board for 4 ohm/dual drivers by doubling the cap and halving the coil = so something like 66 uF x 1.65 mH - then use the 18-Sound 6ND410 or 6MN410 for the mid and delete the Lpad on the mid-board [no resistor array] to bring the mid driver up to the level of the dual woofs - finally choose a stout tweet driver [I'd use the D220Ti-8] and dime the Lpad [or you could save some $ and even leave out the variable tweet Lpad]. Start a thread at GB's forum if you want some help refining that concept.
Once again, with feeling.
The fEARless line uses a very different cross over from either the CBG or the T3W, and uses different mid drivers than are used in the fEARful line.
Is it an upgrade & how?
What the low end frequency difference between the FearLESS & fearFULL 15/6
It is a different mid driver, therefore requires a different cross over. It is different because it needs to be.
Unless you are dropping a 5 string down a full step or more, you are not going to notice much difference in the low end of the cabs.
I'm looking into them to double as sub duty for kick drums so I'm just trying to get an idea of how different that low end is with numbers.
I understand they have different mid drivers but the premise is still the same... low passing the mid better than the GBG cross did. If this new cross does the same things as well as the FearLESS line to improve on the FearFULL line, I'd be willing to give FearFULL another look after the initial mediocre reviews... due to the CBG
Theoretically the Fearless line should be an upgrade \ more refined version of the Fearful line. How different can they really be using the same woofer & same horn? Unless the mid driver & cross are THAT much more improved... but the T3W is solving that so we are down to the difference in box size & mid driver.
