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Tube amp question

D

drden

Nov 11, 2008
216
1
Troy, NY
#1
Just a really quick question. I was talking to my brother, who's a bit of a guitar gearhead, and much more technologically inclined than myself. I was talking about buying a new head, and was wondering if I should bite the bullet and go all tube, or just get a tube pre amp and solid state power amp. I was thinking, I might as well get a good quality all-tube head, just to be sure I'm getting the tube tone I'm looking for, but he mentioned tube power amp sections tend to project a little "spongy," and act really funny in some rooms. I'm not sure if this is just the warm tone he is talking about, or what he means by this.

Basically, I want to know how tube and solid state power sections act differently. I understand how they work for the most part, but how do they impact the tone, attack or projection of the amp? is there even a huge difference when it comes to power amps, or do they just provide volume?

Thanks! :)
 
#2
IME there is a difference. I hauled out my old tube pre + solid state power amp rack the other day and I couldn't quite get that nice, subtle warmth that I feel in my bones, the way the all-tube heads do so effortlessly.

(I had much better luck getting that with a SS preamp in to the effects return on my Mesa. So IMO for the "tube" thing, the power section is all-important.)

FWIW I've never really had a problem with certain rooms with a tube amp. There are a couple of extra-boomy rooms I haven't tried since I caught the all-tube bug but I don't anticipate any major snags there. (Still got plenty of leeway to turn the lows down. Or put the speaker cab on a milk crate.)
 
#3
i have heard of a few people refer to tube amps as "spongy." i personally think they're insane. yes, if you turn it up to the point of distortion it will get spongy. below that and i don't hear it at all.
 
#4
"Spongy"? If it isn't poor use of EQ it is either improper bias or some other fault in the amp. Myself, and again IMHO, I get no different "feel" in my bones from the SS than tube output. Except that I am not using a weight set on load in, load out. I am a reformed tube snob so again it is IMHO and not shared by all.
 
#5
Okay, I believe you guys, I just wasn't sure if their was really any issue with the tube power amp section. I figure somebody looking for a tube tone would dig an all-tube head much more, the downsides being reliability/maintenance and expense?

Thanks for the info guys.
 
#6
drden said:
Okay, I believe you guys, I just wasn't sure if their was really any issue with the tube power amp section. I figure somebody looking for a tube tone would dig an all-tube head much more, the downsides being reliability/maintenance and expense?
Click to expand...
those downsides are very overrated by people who have never touched a tube amp in their lives. that is one of my big pet peeves about talkbass...people with absolutely no experience whatsoever with tube amps talking about how tough and expensive they are to work on. yeah, you have to buy a tube occasionally. big deal.

btw, these are the same people who use words like "spongy" to describe the tone.
 
#7
JimmyM said:
those downsides are very overrated by people who have never touched a tube amp in their lives. that is one of my big pet peeves about talkbass...people with absolutely no experience whatsoever with tube amps talking about how tough and expensive they are to work on. yeah, you have to buy a tube occasionally. big deal.

btw, these are the same people who use words like "spongy" to describe the tone.
Click to expand...

^ YES. Truth be told it is cheaper many times to repair a tube amp than a SS. Not to mention easier! In 42 years of giging had one 12AX7 fail and that was a new Sovtek in the guitards Marshall. That was an outside gig in July, 120 in the shade. Had one fail at turn on before a practice, $8.00 in PS diodes and a $.50 fuse.
 
#8
a tube amp with a tube rectifier is indeed very spongy. Mesa dual/triple rectos are the only modern amp that has them to my knowledge. And those are for guitars.
As far as projecting, open back tube combos project a bit differently than closed back cabs with heads. But that has nothing to do with tubes.
I personally prefer tubes for my sound, but plenty of folks get great sound with an all solidstate signal path.
 
#11
Spongy? Thats a new one.... :eyebrow:

Never thought my Superbass copy was anything in the same paragraph with the word "spongy".

But you might disagree, and are entirely allowed too. :D

But yes, look at an Orange, or even a MATAMP, or Hiwatt, or old Marshalls. :)
 
#12
I don't like that word spongy, either. And in fact, some all tube amps sound very solid state, like the Mesa Buster for one. Very quick and snappy, yet still warm and fat. Every design is different, and even among all tube bass amps, there's quite a variance in tonal characteristics.
 
#14
Jefenator said:
Though interestingly, IME tube amps aren't just about the low end at all. There's an organic quality in the treble response that I also enjoy and vastly prefer over solid state. (As do many guitarists.)

Like a real sea sponge compared to a synthetic foam sponge. :hiding:
Click to expand...

The way I see it, (and I view most of my bass tones like this) is that there should be a good amount of low end, not too much, not too little. thats the part that the bass player has to cover because its his job. Once thats taken care of, the real character of an amp and a bass is all in the midrange and the top end. I like the treble vintage tube amps provide more, sort of a more vintage contour, just extra attack, and less of a sparkling, sizzling top.



KramerBassFan said:
But yes, look at an Orange, or even a MATAMP, or Hiwatt, or old Marshalls. :)
Click to expand...

I was interested in old marshalls too. I haven't played many different all-tube heads, especially vintage ones, but from looking at stuff online, Orange, Marshall, and a few other companies seem good.




Sort of looking for this tone.
 
#15
Some people may be using the term "spongy" to refer to the "sag" you get from an overdriven amp when the transformer becomes saturated. Of course, you can't do this with a solid state amp because it will sound like sh*t. Along with a tube rectifier, it's a highly desired effect for many guitar players. It possible to get the same thing from an Ampeg B15 or a Fender Bassman. It's real easy to correct though if you don't want it. Turn it down. The trick is to play just below that level and use your right hand string attack to send it into that "sag" zone for effect. Tube amps are incredibly clean and bright below that point. Above that -harmonic distortion and sag. If you don't want that, don't go there.

Gale
 
#18
Before I got my berg nv215 I was a little torn between loving the sound of both a crest ca9/demeter with various ampeg cabs and my old svt. Once I got the berg, the SVT pairing cured my amp and cab gas forever. It was like hearing every bass the way it was meant to sound. That was the day that tube took a solid lead for me.

I've also plugged an Orange, Kustom, Walter Woods, GK 1001 and 800rb into that cab and again, svt still ahead of any options I've tried although a good sound could be found with all.
 
#19
yeah. i have to say that even though i've always loved the sound of a factory spec'd running SVT through and old straightback, or early angle-back 810, i really never heard it in the same light until recently, when i hooked mine up to my EL Whappo Jr. cab. i've now come to appreciate it even more. it's not just its tone that i love, but it's the way that it responds to every nuance of attack that i put into it.
 

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