Double Bass Tube Pre for no-amp-gigs

[Uncletoad]

same reasons as drurb mentioned?

There is nothing useful down there and a ton of stuff that can mess up speakers and amps.

 

[Gearhead43]

Dude, my amp is so awesome it puts out lows you can't even HEAR, man!

Rock!

 

[anonymous02282011]

Dude, my amp is so awesome it puts out lows you can't even HEAR, man!

Rock!

there's another quality post.

Add that to "string so and so up" and "exquisitely stupid".

for one, i'm NOT endorsing this DI or anything other equipment I use . . . .

and second, I specifically wasn't endorsing using this particular tube DI for double bass, which was the main point of the thread.

I heard the product, liked it, and started using it about a year and a half before I contacted the manufacturer to learn something technical about so that I could correlate that info as to why I liked it.

I'm just here looking for information guys.

 

[Uncletoad]

there's another quality post.

Add that to "string so and so up" and "exquisitely stupid".

for one, i'm NOT endorsing this DI or anything other equipment I use . . . .

and second, I specifically wasn't endorsing using this particular tube DI for double bass, which was the main point of the thread.

I'm not dissing you whatsoever. I don't doubt it sounds great. I'm sure it works as you want it to and could for many others.

What I am doing is making a comment about the design and build of that box. It may not be a useful post to you but the guy that buys the product and blows up his speakers with it could have avoided that problem if he knew about that before hand. I'm not even suggesting not to use it--especially if it sounds good and works. As long as a person employs stout high pass filters somewhere in the signal chain before the amplifier the problem goes away.

Not a small point at all.

 

[anonymous02282011]

I did end up using FDecks pre to tame the low end and correct the speaker excursion problem I was having with the DI.

Whats interesting is that the VL208 was, I think, trying to reproduce those lows, which may give some insight into the speaker design. EAs 1x10 had similar issues.

Knowing what I do now, I would've inquired about frequency response and range, etc. when I bought the box. Still, it's great for EB.

My buddy who plays acoustic guitar swears by this:

Link Removed

before he got it, amplifying his guitars was a nightmare.

 

[anonymous02282011]

so, is there anything inherent in tube circuitry or design that makes it unfavorable for piezo pickup equipped DB?

 

[Uncletoad]

Whats interesting is that the VL208 was, I think, trying to reproduce those lows, which may give some insight into the speaker design. EAs 1x10 had similar issues.

Knowing what I do now, I would've inquired about frequency response and range, etc. when I bought the box. Still, it's great for EB.

My buddy who plays acoustic guitar swears by this:

Link Removed

before he got it, amplifying his guitars was a nightmare.

The VL208 is my favorite cabinet these days. It will attempt to reproduce whatever you send it. My current amp the AI Focus will try to send it everything it get coming in. I use High Pass filtering almost every gig. Make the power amp and speaker more efficent. Stops the signal chain from trying to amplify stuff that isn't useful saving power for what is.

The ProPlat is a great tool for all those things.

There is nothing wrong with tubes on a double bass. It's my preference these days to use solid state stuff as I like the punch, the damping factor all the quick response stuff that goes along with solid state. Tubes are warm and furry and cut off all the rough edges. I prefer the edges. Not everyone does.

 

[gnergaard]

In some instances I've been using a Demeter HBP1 with a fullcircle on my upright. While I agree with what has been said about Solid State vs. Tubes for acoustic amplification, this pre works really well for me. I like the subtle warmth that it imparts while still allowing a ton of highs and sparkle and overall "clean" sound to come through. I send the signal from this pre direct to the house and also use the f-deck hi pass filter/preamp to tame the low end. Works pretty well for high-volume situations.
Co-incidentally I hate this preamp for electric bass, probably for the same reasons that I like it for upright.
Unfortunately I realize that we are now WAY off the original post which was asking for an affordable tube DI, I believe. To that end I think that most of the Tube DIs that are affordable just aren't clean enough for an acoustic instrument. My experience has been with the ART tube pre, the DBX tube pre, the Presonus tube pre, and countless tube preamps ranging from Ampeg to SWR. They just weren't designed for piezo pick ups on upright bass. The numerous solid state alternatives that have been suggested previously are designed for upright bass specifically and that is the real difference. It's not whether it's tube or solid state so much as the fact that the things are designed for upright and acoustic instruments. To add to the list of possibilites mentioned are the LL Baggs para DI and the Gibson-designed Soltice preamp. Great, small, feature packed and designed for these specific applications.

 

[jrlynch]

gotta say the "+8db@8hz" thing slayed me.

i imagine if you where a huge fan of the legendary cinema masterpiece "earthquake" you might find some use for it, but ....

meanwhile, what's a "proplat"?

jeff.

The VL208 is my favorite cabinet these days. It will attempt to reproduce whatever you send it. My current amp the AI Focus will try to send it everything it get coming in. I use High Pass filtering almost every gig. Make the power amp and speaker more efficent. Stops the signal chain from trying to amplify stuff that isn't useful saving power for what is.

The ProPlat is a great tool for all those things.

There is nothing wrong with tubes on a double bass. It's my preference these days to use solid state stuff as I like the punch, the damping factor all the quick response stuff that goes along with solid state. Tubes are warm and furry and cut off all the rough edges. I prefer the edges. Not everyone does.

 

[Uncletoad]

gotta say the "+8db@8hz" thing slayed me.

i imagine if you where a huge fan of the legendary cinema masterpiece "earthquake" you might find some use for it, but ....

meanwhile, what's a "proplat"?

jeff.

I got Lazy. Fishman Pro Platinum Bass preamp/eq swiss army bass pre.

 

[drurb]

Lol.

So, just to be sure I emailed the guy who makes this thing and he confirmed that there's an 8db boost centered around 7-9Hz.

The reasoning is that it would be there on a CD recording

Huh? 8 Hz on a CD?

 

[drurb]

I'm not dissing you whatsoever. I don't doubt it sounds great. I'm sure it works as you want it to and could for many others.

What I am doing is making a comment about the design and build of that box. It may not be a useful post to you but the guy that buys the product and blows up his speakers with it could have avoided that problem if he knew about that before hand. I'm not even suggesting not to use it--especially if it sounds good and works. As long as a person employs stout high pass filters somewhere in the signal chain before the amplifier the problem goes away.

Not a small point at all.

Precisely!

 

[bongomania]

The Red Book standard for CDs only goes down to 20 Hz. That said, the Evil Twin is famous for sounding really, really good, so I would not "kick it out of bed" even if the 8 Hz boost was nonsensical.

 

[Gearhead43]

Some guys just can't take a joke.

I don't avoid tubes for upright, but I'm not seeking them out either. If a preamp sounds good, it sounds good. An adjustable high-pass fiter is a must for me, and a phase switch a huge plus.

My swr head has a tube in the pre and sounds great with my upright, but the tube only adds a little spice, not the primary flavor.

 

[drurb]

The Red Book standard for CDs only goes down to 20 Hz. That said, the Evil Twin is famous for sounding really, really good, so I would not "kick it out of bed" even if the 8 Hz boost was nonsensical.

True enough about the Red Book standard. Even if that standard did not exist, given equipment commonly in use, one would not find appreciable 8 Hz content on any CD. As you probably know, recording/transcription equipment is usually not DC coupled (for good reason) and ultra-low frequency roll-offs are often built in (for good reason). Even if all that were preventing the transduction of infrasonics such as 8 Hz, they would be lost on virtually all (including up-scale) home audio systems. Okay, so the speakers I use at home for music reproduction actually have usable energy down to 12 Hz. I've never tested that.

I also agree about not kicking the Evil Twin out of bed just because it has a nonsensical 8-Hz bump. I sure never suggested doing so.

 

[drurb]

Some guys just can't take a joke.

So it appears!

don't avoid tubes for upright, but I'm not seeking them out either. If a preamp sounds good, it sounds good. An adjustable high-pass fiter is a must for me, and a phase switch a huge plus.

95% agreement. I figure my goals for amplifying my DB can be met nicely with solid-state equipment especially because I abhor "voiced" pre-amps. There are practical reasons for my avoidance of tube equipment (especially on the "power" end of the chain) that I mentioned in earlier posts. As I also said before, I'm not anti-tubes. I believe I understand them better than most being a vintage tube-amp hobbyist and restorer.

 

[MR PC]

Lol.
back on track: almost everytime i've seen larry grenadier he is without an amp, but most def coming through the PA. I wonder what, if anything he uses, b/c his sound is quite nice! At one point I thought he was running a realist straight to the board, but I really don't know.

Personally, I've never heard/seen/used the ART tube channel
strip.

Last I heard, Larry was using the FMR mic preamp. (RNP)

The ART piece, there is a bassist around here who swears by it. Can't remember the handle...JIm Carr? I've heard them used for other acoustics instruments live, they have sounded good. I'm not even sure if they are made anymore.

8hz......that's for top secret government weapons. Knocks down skyscrapers, beaches whales, and scrambles guts.:scowl:

 

[anonymous02282011]

Some guys just can't take a joke.

Go back to page one or two and see where I typed "lol". I didn't know whether your comment was a joke or a dig. The sticky tongue out icon hurt my feelings though.

Anyway, when I heard the 8hz thing I thought it was ridiculous too. I'm still trying to figure out what in the circuitry provides that warm sound that I'm digging.

 

[anonymous02282011]

Tubes are warm and furry and cut off all the rough edges.

Well articulated. Anyone know why that is exactly, or can point me to some reading material?

 

[bongomania]

It's just distortion- both clipping (distortion of the amplitude range) and harmonic distortion (distortion of the frequency range). All amplification circuits introduce some distortion, but solid-state circuits are generally designed for the minimum amount possible within budget, while tube designs are often designed to take advantage of the way they distort, which is typically thought of as "musically pleasing". Different types of amplification circuit introduce different types of distortion. It is entirely possible (and common amongst audiophiles) to design a tube amp that has less distortion than a typical solid-state amp.

Note that "distortion" in this context means "any alteration of the signal", it does not necessarily mean a grindy/buzzy noise.