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Tube Watts = SS Watts ??

#161
fourstringburn said:
Bring over your tube amps!

There is no substitute for such strong, tight, and powerful Bass tones that higher power SS amps can deliver at any volume!

Unless you like that broken up sagging tone when a tube amp is cranked, that's your preference. I do like tube amps at lower to modest levels though.

Those "psycho-acoustics you hear are just that, Psycho! Wouldn't be heard in the mix anyway.

I already compared my rig side by side to a SVT CL and also made comparisons of preamps with my SVP Pro preamp to the SVT CL and I honestly prefer the SVP Pro better. Mainly because of the extra edge from the Drive circuit is the difference. Amp wise, no contest against my current rig of course. I normally use very little EQ. Most are set flat or some cut values when necessary. Don't need it with Fender Basses and Ampeg preamps!

Not flaming or trolling, just giving my honest opinion about my personal experiences with both amp types.

Before you guys chastise me, have you honestly made similar side by comparisons?



Nothing like 2-810e's to shake things up!
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I need to update my current rig pic which consists of the items listed in my signature.
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I'll try to summarize:

Ultimately it doesn't matter if 1 tube watt is perceived as louder or softer than 1 solid state watt. An SVT8-Pro makes 2,500W at 2 ohms and I don't know of any commercially available tube amps that gets remotely close to that level of power. The point is solid state is going to win the SPL battle one way or the other.
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On a more pragmatic level. There are plenty of tube and solid state amps that make at least 300W. 300W is more than enough for most users. Since both types of amps make more power than most users need, what difference does it make which is louder?
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#162
I was in a band with a LOUD drummer that set the base line for volume. He owned the PA and practice place so we were stuck there. I struggled with amps. Eden WT1000/WP100, TE pre/Crown PB2, then I tried a Mesa 400+ and that got there for me but lacked the bottom punch I liked. I had a SVTII pro, then a SVT4 pro that was very loud, but I kept wanting a tube amp. It never worked out and I ended up using a GK2000RB (the problem ones), but that amp DELIVERED!(I ALWAYS needed ear plugs). I loved deep rich clean sound. That band ended about 13 years ago and I got a nice quiet-ish band now, that I don't even need ear plugs. I have a GK800RB, ABM500, and use a Reeves C225 that is plenty clean-loud for this band. So almost anything 200+ watts does it for me now. I hear these guys playing 2,000 watt amps and it must be fatiguing at those levels.
Sorry for being scattered.
 
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#164
Wasnex said:
An SVT8-Pro makes 2,500W at 2 ohms and I don't know of any commercially available tube amps that gets remotely close to that level of power. The point is solid state is going to win the SPL battle one way or the other.
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Yeah, If there was a kilowatt or more tube Bass amp, imagine the weight and amperage needed to run it. I would imagine it would need a separate power supply or a 220v outlet. Not very efficient or practical at all.

My point is that a single 300 watt tube head in a hard rock/metal band rehearsal room with a loud drummer and Marshall stacks doesn't go as far as many people claim. After a certain point the amp is cranked and no longer sounds tight. I guess many people like that but I don't.

I spent years fighting to be heard until I finally stepped it up. Big power with Cabs that can handle it keeps the Bass tone tight and punchy up to volume levels that should never be used but it's nice to know I have plenty left in reserve.

8 tubes amps could get you there but at what cost and how are you going to supply power to all that?

1 high power SS amp and you're done!
 
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#166
fourstringburn said:
My point is that a single 300 watt tube head in a hard rock/metal band rehearsal room with a loud drummer and Marshall stacks doesn't go as far as many people claim. After a certain point the amp is cranked and no longer sounds tight. I guess many people like that but I don't.
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I totally agree. A SVT into an 810 is probably plenty loud for anything I would ever do. The problem is the cab so dark that I can't hear any of the mids and highs that I need to feel connected to my sound. In order to hear clearly, I need to crank up, and soon the amp is out of headroom and everyone is complaining that I am too loud.

My last touring rig was an Eden D210XLT stacked on top of my rolling rack tilted back to aim at my ears. I pushed the speaker with about 240W from one side of a QSC power amp and could hear way better than I ever could running an SVT and 810. I let the PA do the heavy lifting, so I did not need to carry the room.
 
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#167
Wasnex said:
I totally agree. A SVT into an 810 is probably plenty loud for anything I would ever do. The problem is the cab so dark that I can't hear any of the mids and highs that I need to feel connected to my sound. In order to hear clearly, I need to crank up, and soon the amp is out of headroom and everyone is complaining that I am too loud.

My last touring rig was an Eden D210XLT stacked on top of my rolling rack tilted back to aim at my ears. I pushed the speaker with about 240W from one side of a QSC power amp and could hear way better than I ever could running an SVT and 810. I let the PA do the heavy lifting, so I did not need to carry the room.
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Tough being a Bass Player… seems like a never ending struggle to consistently hear yourself like you want whereas guitarists can hurt your ears with a 30w practice amp.

Keep on thumpin'
 
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#169
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#170
bobyoung53 said:
There's a lot more to sound than watts, to me tube amps sound bigger than SS amps, tube amps envelop you in sound, I've never had that sensation with any SS amp. That being said watts are watts.
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Hopefully someday you will get a chance to try a Mesa Titan. If you don't feel enveloped in sound with a Titan something is wrong. The low end is sort of like an SVT on steroids. I have seen people refer to the Titan as the "Gentleman's SVT." I suspect they were being ironic. "Zombie Apocalypse SVT" is probably more apt. To be clear, I mean it's not a subtle amp.
 
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#171
fourstringburn said:
Interesting,

The specs on the first one says it was 150 lbs for the amp and 80 lbs for the power supply. That'll keep you in shape lugging that around.

Draws over 17 amps. That'll run up your electric bill just in standby then trip the breaker with an open E note!

I wonder how much he wants for it? :D
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In the linked thread Nate mentioned a figure around $10K. I played through it at a TB GTG. It made a lovely space heater and was crazy fun to play through.
Yel_wink.gif
 
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#172
People still get confused.

dont know what to tell yah.
Done perfectly fine with a 810 and 100 to 200 watts

Ive played drums , bass and keyboards for extremely loud industrial/metal bands.

never needed anything more than 100 to 200 watts.
then again on tour i upped that to 2 x 810 and 2 heads.

really most guys dont need more than a standard 2x15 , 410 or 2x12 and 300 watts is more than enough.

the difference between a 6 pound or 18 to 20 pound head that is 300 watts just doesnt make sense to me.

pretty normal class AB amp with linear supply doesnt weigh more than a Gallon of milk or basically 2 Gallons of milk.
Im fat and old and still can carry 2 gallons of milk

Pretty basic 100 watt tube amp is much heavier, then again that and a 2x12 is a easy carry.


Aside from my poop talk. since im well aware of how consistent a 810 sounds
including max SPL and tone.

A 100 watt solid state and 100 watt tube amp go exactly to the same place far as loudness or SPL
As far as " Magical Distortion" the tube and solid state is the same.
When i engage even more insane distortion that a tube head wont easily do with a pedal.
With a pedal the tube head and solid state......the same.

As far as using technique with my hands and my bass to get different tone with no distortion, head or pedal
The tube head and the sealed cab have a unique feel that is different
far as heavy dirt tone. Same
far as mild dirt tone and using a tube head, there is a little magic to touch sensitivity with a 6L6 or 6550 beam tetrode type.
most of it gets ruined with a reflex cab or feels different, the sealed 810 will win everytime
far as angry heavy distortion the EL34 has a magic. but a decent dirt pedal or solid state distortion will do the same as the EL34
i had a marshall loaded with cheap garbage chinese KT66 and it felt a little different than 6L6 or EL34
but the biggest improvement was the cabinet used.
far as mystical magical tube pres. garbage dont care
its either all solid state or all tube
most of the " magical" propertys of distortion is pre filter, post filter and gain stages.
a tube a transistor or a opamp can get the same waveform, it just takes different design to get there. most of the magic is filters
far as tubes and transformers the bandwidth goes to hell in saturation. its slightly easier to get there with a tube
 
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#175
Wasnex said:
I keep most of them in two rooms in my basement. Some are permanently stacked on speakers and conference tables, so I don't have to move them around. The big guitar amps have matching 412 speakers with castors, and I keep them parked in a corner. About 7 of my big tube bass heads are rotated on/off the floor. Wish I had room for a couple more conference tables, because lifting the big tube amps is a pain.

I have slowed way down on my collecting, but I still struggle with GAS for a few vintage and extraordinary amps. Hard to resist buying a Mesa D180. I am sure I will succumb eventually :roflmao:; just have to see the right amp and deal at a moment of weakness.
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btw do you have a versatone? And if so what do you think of it? I just learned that that’s what Jack Casady used On his early recordings. I’ve always loved his sound.
 
#177
Wasnex said:
I think the worst jolt ever I took was 1.5kW burst from a portable navigational beacon. That was hand to hand so I am very lucky to be alive. I think I was holding the case in my left hand and taking the antenna off with my right hand; I didn't realize it was still powered up. It took my breath away and my chest hurt for a couple of weeks.
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Mine was in radar school. I went across the PS of an AN/SPS-10 surface search radar. I was thrown across the room. Good times.
 
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#178
Wasnex said:
Hopefully someday you will get a chance to try a Mesa Titan. If you don't feel enveloped in sound with a Titan something is wrong. The low end is sort of like an SVT on steroids. I have seen people refer to the Titan as the "Gentleman's SVT." I suspect they were being ironic. "Zombie Apocalypse SVT" is probably more apt. To be clear, I mean it's not a subtle amp.
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It's cool but it weighs more than my cab... : D
 
#180
Wasnex said:
I have never seen or heard one. They don't look like much, but they get rave reviews and prices are insane.
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One of my teachers had one many years ago. I remember teasing him about it because, as you say, it doesn’t really look like much. He told me that in California they were popular and they’re very good amps. I never really believed him until now.
 
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