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Tuner question

S

ShredLikeTim

Mar 4, 2018
79
88
#1
I just bought a Squier VM 70s Jazz which I really like for the price paid.
Only issue is tuners don’t stay in tune for very long.

Is there a way to tighten them to hold better or should they be replaced?
If replacement is needed, what’s a good bang for the buck set that would use same holes? Weight is not an issue. Thanks
 
#4
  • Are you moving between extreme temperatures or humidities?
  • Have you just changed the strings, or are these completely new strings?
  • Have you set "witness points" on all bends (nut, post, and bridge)?
All of these can cause a bass to get a bit out of tune, and nothing to worry about. Temperatures are going to be a problem with almost any bass (and may actually also require truss-rod adjustment), and new strings need a few days/hours of playing to settle in.

If none of these apply - this needs to be looked at more in depth and pics may indeed help.
 
#6
Temperature - not an issue
Strings - they do not feel new - I’m a
Part time beginner
Time - less than 12 hours
Tune - I tune to pitch using a snark
Pics - what type of pictures would be needed to show?
I’ll try the witness points tonight and set it to pitch and report what it changes to
Great stuff folks thanks a ton, I love learning new things.
 
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#7
I was thinking pictures of the backs of the tuners showing any screws etc. would help us answer your question about whether they can be tightened. Generally, big open gears, can be tightened, small hidden gears in a can, maybe not so easily...
 
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#8
Every time you pick up the instrument, you should tune it. Lots of mine will be very close and playable without tuning, but the notes will generally be slightly flat.

With a new instrument or strings:
1) The strings can take some time to lose the slack in them. Some people wrap around the tuning peg too much and in a non uniform way that can have places that are looser than others. These gradual tighten, but can cause shift in pitch. Every time I put new strings on, I tune to pitch, stretch the strings, tune to pitch and repeat until stable. This also helps address when the strings are binding in the bridge or nut. Metal strings don't take as long to stretch as nylon strings. I also think the cheaper strings don't hold tune as well.

From the limited information, this is my bet for why you are having the issue.

2) When you tighten the strings the neck will bow slightly forward gradually, slackening the strings. If that is happening and affecting playability, the truss rod may need adjusted.

3) The tuning machines may be slackening. There is normally a screw you can tighten on the back or the end of the tuning peg that will tighten the tuning machine gear and make it harder to turn.

Other things like binding in the saddle, under string trees, or at the nut often need a touch of lubrication to help the strings glide through. I've done this on my acoustic guitar with pencil graphite. Never done it on bass though.

Setting the witness points may help. What I'm about to say is TB blasphemy: I've never set witness points.
 
#9
James Collins said:
I've never set witness points.
Click to expand...
I didn't start to until a few years ago, and sometimes still forget to. I think they "set themselves" eventually, which can be pretty quickly depending on playing style. Better to remember to be safe, but I can't say it has made that huge of a difference.
 
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#10
bholder said:
I didn't start to until a few years ago, and sometimes still forget to. I think they "set themselves" eventually, which can be pretty quickly depending on playing style. Better to remember to be safe, but I can't say it has made that huge of a difference.
Click to expand...
I have it as a thought in case I did have a problem. I think it also depends on your style of bass. So many of mine have tilted headstocks and two piece bridges that have a tendency to create the witness point automatically. I think if I played Fender basses it would matter more. It is an idea if you have tuning problems to try it though.
 
#11
96tbird said:
Do you always tune up to pitch, never down?
Click to expand...
When @96tbird says always tune up to pitch, that means 100% of the time. If you miss a note and overshoot the mark so you wind up sharp, then you MUST detune to noticeably flat and start tuning up over again. With my clumsy hands I sometimes over shoot the mark 3 or 4 times before I get it. This isn't some magic or superstitious ritual for tuning, there is a sound basis for tuning this way. EVERY tuning machine, regardless of cost, has play or 'lash' in it. Tuning up to pitch keeps the lash out of the tensioned side of the gear. Tuning down to pitch puts that lash on the tensioned side of the gear. When the lash is located there, normal string vibration will allow string tension to pull on the gear and move the lash to the untensioned side of the gear, causing the string to go flat.
 
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#13
ThingsAbove said:
Can I get a witness?
Click to expand...
I din' see nutt'n.

Going along with post #11, properly set your witness points. Let's talk about them for a minute. when you put new strings on an instrument. the strings are reluctant to make sharp bends and form arcs around corners and bends. When you tune your bass those arcs are still there. Over time, with use, those strings will slowly lose the arc and have nice crisp angles where there should be nice crisp angles. In the meantime as those arcs are changing to angles, the string keeps going flat. because it takes more wire to describe the arc than it does to describe the angle. The extra string is absorbed through the loss of tension, resulting in a flat string. To resolve this little conundrum, the witness points, spots where the string needs to bend, can be set when the strings are new. How? Well, I'm glad you asked. Before you put the new strings on move the saddles well back of where you expect intonation to happen, so that when you do tune, intonation will be flat. Now bring your strings to tension, you will intonate flat, so shorten the string, set the witness point and check the intonation again, still flat, rinse and repeat. (A nice side effect of this is that you aren't fighting string tension as you intonate so the stress on the screw heads is minimal and they won't get chewed up.) Notice here that each time you set the witness point and the string is still flat the witness point is being moved behind the saddle so it doesn't affect future use of the string. (incidentally the same thing is happening at the nut, the old witness points there are pulled over the nut and taken out of consideration.) Ain't that cute?
 
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#14
sissy kathy said:
I din' see nutt'n.

Going along with post #11, properly set your witness points. Let's talk about them for a minute. when you put new strings on an instrument. the strings are reluctant to make sharp bends and form arcs around corners and bends. When you tune your bass those arcs are still there. Over time, with use, those strings will slowly lose the arc and have nice crisp angles where there should be nice crisp angles. In the meantime as those arcs are changing to angles, the string keeps going flat. because it takes more wire to describe the arc than it does to describe the angle. The extra string is absorbed through the loss of tension, resulting in a flat string. To resolve this little conundrum, the witness points, spots where the string needs to bend, can be set when the strings are new. How? Well, I'm glad you asked. Before you put the new strings on move the saddles well back of where you expect intonation to happen, so that when you do tune, intonation will be flat. Now bring your strings to tension, you will intonate flat, so shorten the string, set the witness point and check the intonation again, still flat, rinse and repeat. Notice here that each time you set the witness point and the string is still flat the witness point is being moved behind the saddle so it doesn't affect future use of the string. (incidentally the same thing is happening at the nut, the old witness points there are pulled over the nut and taken out of consideration.) Ain't that cute?
Click to expand...
...and at the tuner posts (capstans).
 
#16
I really appreciate your responses. The culprit wasn’t the tuners....it was a 10 year old girl. Apparently my daughter noticed it was new (to me) and she decided to “play” it. This included tuning it to her standards. She got her hands on it after I tuned it in the evening and this explaining why such as loss in tuning. I read her the responses on here and the effort folks put in to help a stranger and she deeply apologizes to all. Anywho I took it and had a pro set up with new GHS Boomers put in. Plays great. Thanks again to all for the help!
 
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#18
ShredLikeTim said:
I really appreciate your responses. The culprit wasn’t the tuners....it was a 10 year old girl. Apparently my daughter noticed it was new (to me) and she decided to “play” it. This included tuning it to her standards. She got her hands on it after I tuned it in the evening and this explaining why such as loss in tuning. I read her the responses on here and the effort folks put in to help a stranger and she deeply apologizes to all. Anywho I took it and had a pro set up with new GHS Boomers put in. Plays great. Thanks again to all for the help!
Click to expand...
Sounds like there's a 10 yr old girl that needs a Gibson SG bass.
 
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