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Tuning up a semitone?

#21
Okay, to clear up a few issues...

I am playing a 5 string bass tuned B E A D G. The guitarist/vocalist is tuned D A D F# A D. He has it in his head that he wants to try Eb Bb Eb G Bb Eb. Let's not discuss the merits of retuning or not retuning for the moment - he and I are good friends and have played literally hundreds of gigs together since 2017 - or 100th gig of this year will occur in late October. The dude is a good guy and a really good entertainer. We have a lot of fun and make a good deal of money. I'm willing to try it on a "let's see what happens" basis.

His point is this - if he finds that he likes playing with his guitar tuned up a semitone, it will be easier for me to just tune my bass up a semitone so as not to have to relearn all of the songs a semitone up. You need to keep in mind that at this point we have a rep list of over 1200 tunes. They are in just about any key you could think of, though none D minor because it makes people weep instantly when you play it.

On one hand, I have no problem playing the songs in regular tuning up a semitone. Most of what we play is not rocket science, and I've never depended a lot on open strings. On the other hand... 1200+ tunes is 1200+ tunes, so saving some effort might be worthwhile. Plus, it freaks him out that I will just play the songs in a new key. I'm not sure why. And as @Dirk Diggler mentioned, communication may become an issue.

To answer any questions about keys... don't overthink the issue here, I could care less which keys we play tunes in. I don't think my guitar player can think that way, but I am ready to play whatever song in whatever key. Makes very little difference to me. My only real questions - and the reason I posted - lie in the mechanical effects on the bass... neck bowing, string tension, intonation, etc.
 
#25
Very common in 80's metal to tune to Eb to give the singers a little extra room and save a little strain. Even if the album was in standard tuning. As long as everyone is on the same page, I don't see a big deal. Much easier than remembering to move up a half step for 1200 songs based on your current tuning.
 
#27
I thought we stopped concerning ourselves with what GUITARISTS want a while ago?

Seriously tho, the only reasonable reason to transpose anything in my opinion is for a vocalist to ease their fatigue.

If you play a 5er, I’d 100% just learn to play up a half step. Better for your musical brain anyway to practice transposition anyway.
 
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#28
esoxhntr said:
Okay, to clear up a few issues...

I am playing a 5 string bass tuned B E A D G. The guitarist/vocalist is tuned D A D F# A D. He has it in his head that he wants to try Eb Bb Eb G Bb Eb. Let's not discuss the merits of retuning or not retuning for the moment - he and I are good friends and have played literally hundreds of gigs together since 2017 - or 100th gig of this year will occur in late October. The dude is a good guy and a really good entertainer. We have a lot of fun and make a good deal of money. I'm willing to try it on a "let's see what happens" basis.

His point is this - if he finds that he likes playing with his guitar tuned up a semitone, it will be easier for me to just tune my bass up a semitone so as not to have to relearn all of the songs a semitone up. You need to keep in mind that at this point we have a rep list of over 1200 tunes. They are in just about any key you could think of, though none D minor because it makes people weep instantly when you play it.

On one hand, I have no problem playing the songs in regular tuning up a semitone. Most of what we play is not rocket science, and I've never depended a lot on open strings. On the other hand... 1200+ tunes is 1200+ tunes, so saving some effort might be worthwhile. Plus, it freaks him out that I will just play the songs in a new key. I'm not sure why. And as @Dirk Diggler mentioned, communication may become an issue.

To answer any questions about keys... don't overthink the issue here, I could care less which keys we play tunes in. I don't think my guitar player can think that way, but I am ready to play whatever song in whatever key. Makes very little difference to me. My only real questions - and the reason I posted - lie in the mechanical effects on the bass... neck bowing, string tension, intonation, etc.
Click to expand...

You’re not in the same tuning as the guitarist, and he’s also planning on altering his tuning entirely: not simply tuning a half step up.

For him to currently play a low E, he’d bar the second fret of his low D strlng: you’d play an open E or fret the fifth fret of the B.

To play a low E in his new transposed tuning, he’d play the open Eb.

That means in order to avoid relearning the songs, you’ll want to tune down a half step to be able to still play that open Eb or the fifth fret of the Bb: if you tune up a semitone to C F Bb Eb Ab, you’ll have to relearn all the songs.
 
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#29
esoxhntr said:
Okay, to clear up a few issues...

I am playing a 5 string bass tuned B E A D G. The guitarist/vocalist is tuned D A D F# A D. He has it in his head that he wants to try Eb Bb Eb G Bb Eb. Let's not discuss the merits of retuning or not retuning for the moment - he and I are good friends and have played literally hundreds of gigs together since 2017 - or 100th gig of this year will occur in late October. The dude is a good guy and a really good entertainer. We have a lot of fun and make a good deal of money. I'm willing to try it on a "let's see what happens" basis.

His point is this - if he finds that he likes playing with his guitar tuned up a semitone, it will be easier for me to just tune my bass up a semitone so as not to have to relearn all of the songs a semitone up. You need to keep in mind that at this point we have a rep list of over 1200 tunes. They are in just about any key you could think of, though none D minor because it makes people weep instantly when you play it.

On one hand, I have no problem playing the songs in regular tuning up a semitone. Most of what we play is not rocket science, and I've never depended a lot on open strings. On the other hand... 1200+ tunes is 1200+ tunes, so saving some effort might be worthwhile. Plus, it freaks him out that I will just play the songs in a new key. I'm not sure why. And as @Dirk Diggler mentioned, communication may become an issue.

To answer any questions about keys... don't overthink the issue here, I could care less which keys we play tunes in. I don't think my guitar player can think that way, but I am ready to play whatever song in whatever key. Makes very little difference to me. My only real questions - and the reason I posted - lie in the mechanical effects on the bass... neck bowing, string tension, intonation, etc.
Click to expand...
Re mechanical issues: unless you already use insanely heavy gauges (usually to be found in the top strings - a 55 G and a 75 D), tuning up a semitone will still be within the respective operating ranges of neck, strings and hands (as for the latter, if it gets uncomfortable just go down in gauge).

The above being said, the simplest solution would be a capo. Especially if playing for yourself or in other bands takes a significant part of your time.
 
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#30
MDBass said:
You’re not in the same tuning as the guitarist, and he’s also planning on altering his tuning entirely: not simply tuning a half step up.

For him to currently play a low E, he’d bar the second fret of his low D strlng: you’d play an open E or fret the fifth fret of the B.

To play a low E in his new transposed tuning, he’d play the open Eb.

That means in order to avoid relearning the songs, you’ll want to tune down a half step to be able to still play that open Eb or the fifth fret of the Bb: if you tune up a semitone to C F Bb Eb Ab, you’ll have to relearn all the songs.
Click to expand...

You seem a bit lost - the guitarist is in open D and wants to tune up a semitone so as to play the songs in a slightly higher key but without having to relearn his fingerings. OP wants to do the same for ease of remembering the songbook.

Tuning down a semitone would give us an open Eb but also require OP to relearn all his positions, which is not what he's wanting. He already plays the songbook in E tuning against the guitarists D tuning, so will need an F standard to match guitarists new Eb tuning.

OP - I personally suggest learning keyboard or developing a transpose key for the bass. Why bother learning keys that aren't C or Am when you can just hit the key?? :)
 
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#34
darkwasthenight said:
OP - I personally suggest learning keyboard or developing a transpose key for the bass. Why bother learning keys that aren't C or Am when you can just hit the key?? :)
Click to expand...

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#39
One of my original bands tunes 1/2 step up at the singer's request. She found the existing melodies a tad low for her voice when she joined.
When I joined I just tuned one of my Dingwall basses up 1/2 step with stock strings, which does work and I'd recommend for the feeling out process.
Depending on seasonal changes I found out the truss rod would sometimes max out and leave me with slightly higher action than desired - on top of strings being stiffer.
I now use custom strings from Newtone for ideal tension.
 

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