Turbosound IP2000 Review

[Wasnex]

@Holeshot1982

I don't know how widespread the problem is, but what you describe is not unusual. If you read through this thread, multiple users described similar distortion and I linked to other online communities where the matter was discussed. The problem really seems to be most prevalent with piano, and as far as I can tell no one has determined exactly what the problem is or developed a solution.

Multiple possibilities. The drivers are being pushed past their limits, the drivers are loose or there is something loose inside the speaker cabinet such as a screw, the circuits or being pushed to clipping somewhere in the signal chain, the distortion is a manifestation of processing artifacts, the connections between speaker elements is intermittent, etc. One user said his speakers were able to play louder without distortion by using bluetooth. Unfortunately bluetooth is only appropriate for recorded music. This suggests a problem with the internal gain structure/signal path.

It's possible that a firmware update could fix the problem if it is related to the signal processing, but last time I checked no firmware updates have been issued. The only advice I can offer is check for loose screws, make sure the physical connections between the speaker elements are securely in place, and review this thread for the best internal gain staging practices (turn the output gain up relatively high and run the input gain relatively low).

In all honesty, I would probably return the unit. From all reports they sound incredible, but the distortion would drive me nuts.

 

[edro]

If KB is a Yamaha and board on stage, either direct box or use a 1/4" cable to line in...not XLR...

 

[Holeshot1982]

Have you gone to The Music Group (now it's called the Music Tribe?), Turbosound forum, to try your luck there?

Link Removed

If nobody can help there, then try your luck directly with Turbosound, or see if the vendor is willing to play ball with you beyond the 30 return period. It's worth a try, and all they can say is "no". From there, it all depends on how much of a stink you care to make of this with the vendor or Turbosound's customer service, and I'd be shocked if they both told you to pound sand.

Were there any other stipulations attached to the Black Friday sale discount, such as "absolutely no returns after 30 days"? It's too bad that you weren't able to try the system out when you got it...but...really, that part of it is your responsibility if you want to guarantee that your a$$ is covered within the 30 days - especially in a "no try before buy" scenario. Still, good business practice should dictate, and to your satisfaction.

Turbosound has always been a good company, even with their recently being acquired by Behringer. If you got a lemon, someone should be able to help you out. The iP2000 is a pretty popular piece of gear and seems to get high marks, generally, amongst most owners (from what I can gather - considering picking up one or two myself).

Good luck!

Yeah I've been on their site and checked around, nothing really useful. They're not as active as this forum is... And you are absolutely correct, it was my responsibility was to check things out within the 30 days. It's probably the biggest reason why I'm not raising hell with the store I bought it from, not their fault I wasn't able to....

Honestly it really irks me that I didn't find this and other forums talking about this problem. I only found "professional" sites doing reviews which as you said, they get high remarks. So in that sense I thought it would be a no brainer and a good fit for me... And if it was just a personal bluetooth speaker, then it would be fine, but that's not the intended purpose. Before you decide to buy I'd take a look at the 11 pages here and some of the other forum links posted.... No way I would have bought it had I seen them.

 

[Holeshot1982]

@Holeshot1982

I don't know how widespread the problem is, but what you describe is not unusual. If you read through this thread, multiple users described similar distortion and I linked to other online communities where the matter was discussed. The problem really seems to be most prevalent with piano, and as far as I can tell no one has determined exactly what the problem is or developed a solution.

Multiple possibilities. The drivers are being pushed past their limits, the drivers are loose or there is something loose inside the speaker cabinet such as a screw, the circuits or being pushed to clipping somewhere in the signal chain, the distortion is a manifestation of processing artifacts, the connections between speaker elements is intermittent, etc. One user said his speakers were able to play louder without distortion by using bluetooth. Unfortunately bluetooth is only appropriate for recorded music. This suggests a problem with the internal gain structure/signal path.

It's possible that a firmware update could fix the problem if it is related to the signal processing, but last time I checked no firmware updates have been issued. The only advice I can offer is check for loose screws, make sure the physical connections between the speaker elements are securely in place, and review this thread for the best internal gain staging practices (turn the output gain up relatively high and run the input gain relatively low).

In all honesty, I would probably return the unit. From all reports they sound incredible, but the distortion would drive me nuts.

I'm not able to return the unit since it's past their 30 days, I'm going to reach out to them but not going "put up a fight" so to speak. I wasn't able to test the system for its intended purpose in that time, that's on me. It's also not on them that the product itself has issues. But since I would rather not deal with the hassle I'm going to try.

If I have no luck with that route I'll see about opening it up and checking for loose screws. I never had the rattling sound others have had where they found the a screws floating around in there.....

I think everyone is on to something with the gain structure thing. I know crap about running and set up for live sound but it's odd how it only does it sometime and not others (and on the same songs at the same point).

Really wish I would have been smart enough to find this thread before buying it. Live and you learn I guess

 

[Wasnex]

I'm not able to return the unit since it's past their 30 days, I'm going to reach out to them but not going "put up a fight" so to speak. I wasn't able to test the system for its intended purpose in that time, that's on me. It's also not on them that the product itself has issues. But since I would rather not deal with the hassle I'm going to try.

If I have no luck with that route I'll see about opening it up and checking for loose screws. I never had the rattling sound others have had where they found the a screws floating around in there.....

I think everyone is on to something with the gain structure thing. I know crap about running and set up for live sound but it's odd how it only does it sometime and not others (and on the same songs at the same point).

Really wish I would have been smart enough to find this thread before buying it. Live and you learn I guess

I wouldn't beat yourself up too much. The product receives rave reviews and the distortion only manifest under specific situations. I suspect it is a design flaw of some sort and it is probably more widespread than is reported. Many users probably just don't notice because they are used to hearing really poor quality sound.

If the problem is electronic in nature, gain staging and a targeted EQ notch is probably the best thing you can do to mitigate the problem. You might also try what I suggested in this post Turbosound IP2000 Review

There is a better chance the problem will eventually get solved if more users engage the manufacturer...so give em hell.

@musicman7722 have you eliminated the problem or just learned to deal with it?

One thing that has crossed my mind is the distortion may just be an artifact of the speaker design. The mids are essentially a line array. The high frequencies are covered by a horn tweeter that sits on top of the array. If the line array elements and horn have overlap in the frequency band they cover, there is a potential problem with phasing that is caused by differences in propagation distances. By propagation distance, I mean the distance between the speaker elements and the listener's ears. There is probably a narrow band of frequencies at the crossover region where this can occur.

 

[jimfist]

This is just a thought, but since we are in a world of wireless digital transmission and gear that may or may not be perfectly shielded from such things....is there any chance this is an electricity problem in your rehearsal room, or due to any possible proximity to computers or cell phones, causing the random crackling/noise? I've had this happen to me with some very high end gear, and it turned out to be poor wiring. Again, just throwing it out there.

 

[jimfist]

Really wish I would have been smart enough to find this thread before buying it. Live and you learn I guess

Don't feel bad...if you buy enough gear, it's bound to happen, and it's happened to me a couple of times over the years. If you can return them for a refund minus re-stocking fee, consider that the price of learning which will SAVE you money over the long haul, not only buying music gear, but when buying just about anything. Life's short, just move on.

 

[edro]

As per my post above, I have heard the same in other powered systems... Yama KB plugged XLR into an XLR on the board... Other keyboards not so much....

 

[Holeshot1982]

This is just a thought, but since we are in a world of wireless digital transmission and gear that may or may not be perfectly shielded from such things....is there any chance this is an electricity problem in your rehearsal room, or due to any possible proximity to computers or cell phones, causing the random crackling/noise? I've had this happen to me with some very high end gear, and it turned out to be poor wiring. Again, just throwing it out there.

I suppose anything is possible, only thing I could say against it is it's a brand new house (no excuses on that though, houses ain't what they use to be) and I'm not having any other issues with my other gear. But you are correct, I've some random crap happen to one particular piece of gear that didn't happen to others due to electricity and other electronics in general.

Don't feel bad...if you buy enough gear, it's bound to happen, and it's happened to me a couple of times over the years. If you can return them for a refund minus re-stocking fee, consider that the price of learning which will SAVE you money over the long haul, not only buying music gear, but when buying just about anything. Life's short, just move on.

I did reach out to the store I bought it from and if they accept the return at this point I'd gladly pay a restocking fee, and they are about 2 hrs away so I'd be happy to drive up and return it in person..... I compared that cost vs trading it in to Guitar Center towards something else and I'd come out better that way. I've yet to hear back from them and there's a chance I won't and that's fine if I don't. Truthfully as a seller if someone contacted me about 15 days after the return policy expired I'd probably refer them to the manufacture..... If they do take it back, someone on this forum will get a good deal on the covers as I just bought those for transport. haha

I really don't mind the system that much, I love that it doesn't take up space, when streaming music it sounds great and I love being able to jam along with tracks through a PA. If I take to a jam at someone's house it's easy enough to transport. There's a lot of good things about the system, this part just bothers me because of how much they raved about it.

As per my post above, I have heard the same in other powered systems... Yama KB plugged XLR into an XLR on the board... Other keyboards not so much....

So in my case are you saying it could be the mixer I"m using? I'm not running keyboards, only running a small mixer to add more mics.

 

[Holeshot1982]

I wouldn't beat yourself up too much. The product receives rave reviews and the distortion only manifest under specific situations. I suspect it is a design flaw of some sort and it is probably more widespread than is reported. Many users probably just don't notice because they are used to hearing really poor quality sound.

If the problem is electronic in nature, gain staging and a targeted EQ notch is probably the best thing you can do to mitigate the problem. You might also try what I suggested in this post Turbosound IP2000 Review

There is a better chance the problem will eventually get solved if more users engage the manufacturer...so give em hell.

@musicman7722 have you eliminated the problem or just learned to deal with it?

One thing that has crossed my mind is the distortion may just be an artifact of the speaker design. The mids are essentially a line array. The high frequencies are covered by a horn tweeter that sits on top of the array. If the line array elements and horn have overlap in the frequency band they cover, there is a potential problem with phasing that is caused by differences in propagation distances. By propagation distance, I mean the distance between the speaker elements and the listener's ears. There is probably a narrow band of frequencies at the crossover region where this can occur.

View attachment 3280294

So I'm wondering if this is a component issue if it replacing some component's would help? Maybe it's just low quality stuff that's causing the issue? I haven't seen anyone say this is a possibility.

 

[edro]

@Holeshot1982

So in my case are you saying it could be the mixer I"m using? I'm not running keyboards, only running a small mixer to add more mics.

I would watch the all the LEDs and look for red and/or too much yellow on channel strips and inputs to the 'stick'....

I have heard that splat before. It was a couple of different Yamaha KBs at different times on just a couple of different patches. Top of the line Yamahas... Hot ass output.... As in the gain at top of chan strip is all the way down and they would still stroke the peak on a couple of patches... Yamaha board too... Not a junk board...

I think that crackly splat could very well be an input being occasionally overdriven... Something could be in the wrong input, a gain/sensitivity set wrong, etc... A board output plugged into a mic input without some adjustments being made, switches switched, buttons pushed, etc... Not familiar with that stick so don't know the inputs/etc. on it, but try a 1/4" out into the 1/4" Line in...

 

[Wasnex]

So I'm wondering if this is a component issue if it replacing some component's would help? Maybe it's just low quality stuff that's causing the issue? I haven't seen anyone say this is a possibility.

The questions you pose are definitely possibilities and something I have mentioned (specifically about the drivers and the limited SPL capabilities of this system).

If it were a manufacturing problem, such as a bad batch of components, it would probably have been fixed by now. I haven't seen any mentions of electronic components failure, but that does not mean it is not occurring.

It's possible there are multiple causes with similar symptoms. Unfortunately intermittent problems are difficult to troubleshoot. If you can figure out how to make the problem manifest consistently it becomes much easier find the cause...just make sure you don't damage the speaker in the process.

It's possible this is design flaw that cannot be fixed without a major redesign. I don't know the answer. What I do know is multiple users have complained of very similar symptoms and no one seems to have a remedy.

 

[Holeshot1982]

@Holeshot1982


I think that crackly splat could very well be an input being occasionally overdriven... Something could be in the wrong input, a gain/sensitivity set wrong, etc... A board output plugged into a mic input without some adjustments being made, switches switched, buttons pushed, etc... Not familiar with that stick so don't know the inputs/etc. on it, but try a 1/4" out into the 1/4" Line in...

This is where I stand to and it makes it hard to troubleshoot because it's only vocals going through it and the guy will sing a song, it will do it but won't do it the next time. I've watched him back off the mic to when it came to a part where he had to get strong with his vocals...... I've tried my best to set the gain on the board as low as I can.

As far as the connections/adjustments you may have a point to that as well and it's one I've considered. If it were just me having this issue then I would have probably already bought a new board to test.... But the board i'm using is a little 4 channel unit that only has 1/4" out..... Now the input on the IP2000 is a combo jack without a setting to set for line/mic. So it will accept 1/4" and XLR.

It's possible there are multiple causes with similar symptoms. Unfortunately intermittent problems are difficult to troubleshoot. If you can figure out how to make the problem manifest consistently it becomes much easier find the cause...just make sure you don't damage the speaker in the process.

It's possible this is design flaw that cannot be fixed without a major redesign. I don't know the answer. What I do know is multiple users have complained of very similar symptoms and no one seems to have a remedy.

I've tried my best to make it happen consistently with just me here (even yelling into the mic) and it doesn't happen. But with the singer it just randomly happens, you know the story haha. And the thing that bothers me is that no has found a remedy at all. I've read the whole thread and it seems a lot of tried various troubleshooting methods I would have thought someone would have figured it out.

 

[musicman7722]

Hey All

Boy i feel your pain. What I think my issue was turned out to be a loose part rattling around inside. I took the part out but I think the sound still happened on occasion. Maybe the screw was meant to hold a speaker in place. Anyway i sent it back and they apparently repaired the screw and it has been fine since. i will admit that for many gigs I always brought my old faithful QSC K10.2's and stands just in case.

 

[Holeshot1982]

Well I heard back from the store, they won't take a return (which I expected, I wouldn't either if I were them). They did however reach out to the company and start a claim for me. Since I registered I'll probably just do the same myself and send it back to see if it helps.......

One thing I haven't considered though... My mixer only has 1/4" out according to the manual, it's a TRS connection. I've just been using a standard instrument cable so I'm not sure how much of a difference it makes. But I ordered a TRS 1/4 to 1/4 and will test out as best as I can.... Tonight I did notice the mixer spiking sometimes when it would do it but then other times it was even close to spiking.

 

[musicman7722]

that shouldn't make a difference

 

[kringle77]

You probably will get more signal going to the speakers with the trs cable, just a hunch.

 

[Holeshot1982]

Just an update.... I was contacted by Turbosound and they want me to take the control module out of the unit and ship it for repair. They seem to think it's a bad input. I've got my doubts but who I'm I to argue.

 

[musicman7722]

Good luck

 

[Holeshot1982]

So my iP2000 is off for repair and last night I had to revert back to my old rehearsal system of a PHM2000 powered head and running a single EV 12' speaker on a stand..... Now that PHM2000 is a total of 500w (250w per side) and the speaker is capable of 300w. I was only running one side of it with master volume up about half way and each channel volume (there is no "gain") about 9 O'Clock..... The volume and sound blew the iP2000 away!!

I only bought the iP2000 for rehearsal. The band is a blues rock band, so no Marshall stacks, 4x10 cabs etc... The room is above my garage and is about 300sq ft. Acoustic drums, 2 guitars, bass, and 3 vocals. Really seems like the iP2000 would be more than capable of handing it. I got the iP2000 because I wanted a stick PA that was easy to move/breakdown (I hate dealing with stands), didn't take up much space, bluetooth, and it would be nice to practice with it so I could get my amp up to playing volume.

I last used the iP2000 on Monday night and had the gain turned down on all the channels of my outboard mixer, didn't need it. I kept the volume faders as close to unity gain as I could. Kept creeping the channel A input volume down on the iP2000. Still got that crackle/clipping on occasion. Yet got zero last night!

Really hoping they find an issue with my unit, otherwise I'll cut my losses. Quality is more important than convenience, was really hoping the IP2000 would be both.