Tutmarc audiovox model 736: where are they?

[alder]

Wow. Zombie thread...

If anyone is still interested, the woodworking on the original Audiovox was really nice. You could tell that Mr. Tutmarc had a woodworking background of some kind. it looked like a well made piece of furniture.

Moonshine

I read somewhere that he had a furniture guy build them for him, he didn't do it himself. I doubt Leo Fender ever touched a router either, but he was a great designer. Anybody know how that first Telecaster was made?

 

[FlaCharlie]

Check out kohanmike's planned tribute idea based on the Hadean Omega U-Bass being sold by Rondo, the SX distributor! It starts on the bottom of this page:

Hadean Omega Bass Uke (Kala U-Bass copy)

 

[alder]

For anyone who wants them ... these are my headstock graphics. Fool around printing them out on paper until you find the right scale ( 30.3", of course. ) Then print them on waterslide decal stock. You can get it from a hobby shop, or on the eBays. I use a laser printer, and make sure the graphic is perfectly black and white, grays come out stippled. I've also used my excellent Canon photo printer, but I like the crispness of the laser better. The inkjet material is thicker, with a coating that is visible even after finishing. Note that the material is one or the other, not both, so make up your mind beforehand.

For the plate, I sanded a scrap of aged pearl pickguard material down to just the top layer. That was very hard on my fingers. I applied the decal, and then lacquered over it. You want to mist a few coats over it first for protection, after that you can apply it heavier to make a sealing coat. My hope is that the lacquer will actually melt the decal onto the plastic, so it shouldn't peel away someday. Nowadays I finish these with poly on headstocks, but in this case the decal ran almost edge to edge, and I wanted to make sure it would stay on. Finally, I used two tiny black screws from the junk box to attach it.

The end result looks very nice, matching the pickguard. I was not going to mess around with brass plate, which is much less attractive than what I used, and would turn downright ugly over time. If you're going to use brass, I recommend you shine it up good, or go for a nice even brushed look, and then clear-coat it. I've restored expensive solid-brass door fixtures that way, and they look good to this day.

Note that this graphic is a negative of the original. Printing black yourself is trivial, printing opaque light colors and metallics requires professional equipment or silk-screening. Years ago such printers were available for home use, but they are all long gone. A trick I often use is to print outlined letters, and let the yellow wood show through the center. Comes out looking like gold, sort-of.

 

[Bflat]

here are some pics of my newest Tutmarc copy with the 3 piece walnut thru neck, getting close to be finished.

 

[Bflat]

 

[moonshinegtrs]

Bflat; That is beautiful!

Nice work Sir.


Moonshine

 

[Bflat]

Moonshine,
just a pickup and volume control to go plus a good finish.......I've picked up 4 Audiovox amps now, also. Its got an ebony fingerboard too......can't wait til its done!!!!

 

[alder]

Very nice. It really highlights all the inaccuracies of mine. How does that tiny neck play?

I've started collecting parts for my even-more-inaccurate Tutmarc, I'm going to build it.

 

[GretschWretch]

Very nice. It really highlights all the inaccuracies of mine. How does that tiny neck play?

I've started collecting parts for my even-more-inaccurate Tutmarc, I'm going to build it.

I think you are being unduly harsh on yourself regarding "inaccuracies." I see Bflat's Tutmarc as being "Original Vintage Tutmarc" while yours is "Modern Player Tutmarc." I just wish one of you guys would take a step in the direction of "Custom Design Tutmarc," or at least offer unfinished bodies with neck pockets already routed so those of us craving simplicity could follow our own muses.

 

[KohanMike]

Thanks FlaCharlie, I'm glad this thread came back. Yes, I'm in the process of modding the new Rondo Hadean bass uke UKBE-22-33 24" scale into a Tutmarc style. I was inspired by the thread asking who bought a bass because it was from the same year as their birth, and when I looked up 1949, only the Tutmarc came up.

I've already cut off the horns and sanded it down (probably not as good as it needs to be) and contacted Pat Wilkins to paint it, bringing it to him on January 5th. I bought the Rondo only because of it being a longer scale, figuring I'd use parts for my other Rondo mods being done, but when I saw the Tutmarc, I knew what to do with it.

I also drew up a headstock logo, not quite as clean as yours, so I might have to steal yours. I'm just going to have a decal made and apply that.

Original Rondo Hadean UKBE-22-33 24" scale:

Mockup of the Tutmarc mod:

Headstock Logo and tribute with my birth month/year:

 

[Bflat]

Alder,
First of all, the Tutmarc inspired bass you made is really great I love the way it looks !!! The few I've made were really because I can't buy an original anywhere on the planet. so with the help from Moonshine and a few others I think I've got as close as you can get. The first one I made is a collection of all original parts some from steel guitars on a one piece alder body I made in my tiny wood shop. the other one is an exact copy made of the walnut one that Moonshine had. I had a friend make that body and he is making a few more for me. Another friend does the metal work. The pickup well thats my job. more to come!!
as for the tiny neck, it really is the same size as a vox neck with less frets and the 12th one aligned at the top of the body. If you take a fender 34 inch neck and chop off the top 2 frets you have the tutmarc original scale neck about 30.5 or so. also it is flat with no rounded face. The neck is also about the same width as a vox neck. It takes some getting use to to play it. remember it won't tune right either because of the straight bridge. Now that I have found some Audiovox amps model 236 and 200, no 936 yet I can play it the way its supposed to sound, which is reasonably good for that period.
Kohanmike that is a cool looking "tutmarc" bass also. Just a historic note. the Paul Tutmarc bass was only made in the 1930's. the Bud Tutmarc bass was made in 1949 and it looks much different than his fathers. there is only one picture of the 100 he said he made on the internet and it is the one his family still has. I can't find one of those either.
All for now.
Dave

 

[HaphAsSard]

the Bud Tutmarc bass was made in 1949 and it looks much different than his fathers. there is only one picture of the 100 he said he made on the internet and it is the one his family still has. I can't find one of those either.

Most of what I know about these I owe it to you guys, but yup:

Bud's 1947 (-49?) recreation, the Serenader bass, had small differences: a concave profile in the upper "cutaway", an edge corner under the treble side of the bridge, a smaller scratchplate, the fact it had no frets above the 12th, different headstock:

(...)

Here's a lap steel from the same years, with clearly the same basic shape:
Invalid Link Removed

(But, as it was quickly and correctly pointed out to me, how Mike wants to shape his bass is nobody's Gad-given business but his of course.)

 

[alder]

Actually, as long as the bridge is in the right place to begin with, the intonation shouldn't go too badly out, as there are only 15 frets, and the high ones look unusable anyway. I would guess that up to the octave, there are no noticeable problems at all - only a tuner will detect it. It depends on how good your ear is and how fussy you are. It also depends somewhat on the strings. I seem to recall that flats are less sensitive than rounds, but I'm not sure. My Ric 4001 does not fully 'intonate' with roundwounds, but you have to go way up the neck to be bothered by it. The bridge really should be 1/4" from where it is, but I'm not drilling any new holes. Rics are gorgeous and iconic, but as actual guitars they often leave much to be desired, especially for the price. That's why I like to build my own.

Remember, every fret on a guitar is a compromise - none of them are truly in tune. I developed my own way of setting intonation by fretting at 3 and 15, and making sure each has the same error. I'll check it at 5 and 17 the same way. These are the spots where you actually play. I don't see the point of using the unfretted nut against a fretted octave or harmonic. For quickie ear tuning, I'll use 5/7 harmonics, but I don't believe that is terribly accurate.

At any rate, intonation is not something the average listener would ever pick up on, especially in a live setting. Hell, play loud enough and you don't even need to be in tune. Intonation a nice theory, and I always set mine up as accurately as possible, but that's because I like to fuss with things in a technical way. Musically, I don't think it is that important. I recently built a fretless, and even set the intonation on that. The entire concept starts to break down, like intonation on a trombone, but I did it anyway. The fretless is fun. Now instead of being limited to playing a small set of wrong notes, I have access to an infinite range of them, freed from the tyranny of frets.

Definitely post some pictures of that pickup. I read that an unscrupulous business partner of Tutmarc's ran off with the design and sold it to ... Rickenbacker. It's a shame, it seems that Tutmarc was almost trying to fail - everything went wrong, and he hardly even tried to sell it. He was more interested in playing and giving lessons, he had no vision for his invention. He was ten years ahead of anyone else, and blew it.

On the other hand, his thing is really really crude compared to even the very first Telecaster. Is there a truss rod of any kind? I would have hidden steel bar under the fretboard. That's all they would have had back then.

 

[Bflat]

Alder,
you are right about the bridge. you can get atleast one string correct and if you use strings that aren't too different in diameter the intonation isn't bad.....plus if you play what I call thump bass, no one can hear it anyway...now Bud Tutmarc slanted his bridge in the 1947 Serenader Bass and fixed the problem...I could do this on my recreations and probably will on one of them so I can play it on stage at least once....for now I'll live with it.

" it seems that Tutmarc was almost trying to fail - everything went wrong, and he hardly even tried." yea he had marital problems also at this time, which leads me to believe he made very few of these basses

 

[alder]

Thanks FlaCharlie, I'm glad this thread came back. Yes, I'm in the process of modding the new Rondo Hadean bass uke UKBE-22-33 24" scale into a Tutmarc style. I was inspired by the thread asking who bought a bass because it was from the same year as their birth, and when I looked up 1949, only the Tutmarc came up.

I've already cut off the horns and sanded it down (probably not as good as it needs to be) and contacted Pat Wilkins to paint it, bringing it to him on January 5th. I bought the Rondo only because of it being a longer scale, figuring I'd use parts for my other Rondo mods being done, but when I saw the Tutmarc, I knew what to do with it.

I also drew up a headstock logo, not quite as clean as yours, so I might have to steal yours. I'm just going to have a decal made and apply that.

Original Rondo Hadean UKBE-22-33 24" scale:
View attachment 756641

Mockup of the Tutmarc mod:
View attachment 756642

Headstock Logo and tribute with my birth month/year:
View attachment 756643

That is a very cool idea. I have something similar in the works, to preserve the aesthetics of the design, but fix the ergonomic issues. My first one is too skinny - it doesn't sit well in your lap, and it doesn't hang quite right on a strap either. What is needed is a wider body with a cut-away on the back. Also, I would hook the bottom edge a bit more than your drawing so that it will catch on your leg when you are sitting. As long as the scale is kept short, the lack of horns is not an issue, the strap button works fine behind the neck. You end up with something like an old Vox Phantom, but better looking. For a long-scale, I would add a strap hook, otherwise you'll be reaching into the next county for the low frets. It would be relatively easy to make out of brass bar stock. Steinbergers had the same ergonomic problems, which were fixed with a whole bunch of unattractive screwed-on kludges, before they finally threw in the towel and started making normal guitar bodies. There is a reason guitars are shaped the way they are, and it has nothing to do with tone.

 

[KohanMike]

I delivered the Rondo to Pat this morning, the color is going to be warm light gray. I'm not sure I'm following your suggestion Alder, the only thing that's changed is cutting off the horns to make the shape of the front of the body like the original Serenader. The scale, neck, frets, bridge, lower bout are not going to change. I'll place the front strap pin when I get it back from Pat, either somewhere along the front upper part of the body, or maybe on the body right below the neck pocket.

 

[alder]

I delivered the Rondo to Pat this morning, the color is going to be warm light gray. I'm not sure I'm following your suggestion Alder, the only thing that's changed is cutting off the horns to make the shape of the front of the body like the original Serenader. The scale, neck, frets, bridge, lower bout are not going to change. I'll place the front strap pin when I get it back from Pat, either somewhere along the front upper part of the body, or maybe on the body right below the neck pocket.

Looking at your mockup, it has a heckuva slope to the bottom edge - it is going to want to slide right out of your lap, with nothing to stop it. That's exactly what mine does, and yours is a lot more pronounced. Leave enough of the lower horn to form a trough for your leg when you are seated, or maybe re-contour that whole edge so it sits right. Easy with a belt sander.

The extra body width should help a lot with its standing posture. If there isn't one already, I would grind out a Strat-style cutaway in the back, so the guitar can lean into you a bit. A narrow body has a tendency to lean away from you, which is annoying. These are all things I found on mine, which you can see earlier in this thread. If you talk about how the neck plays, it is just like a Fender. But the overall feel ... not great, that little body just doesn't feel right.

Behind the neck is the usual spot for the strap button for this shape. Look at a Lognhorn or a violin bass, that's where you'll find it. Putting the strap button behind the neck aggravates the leaning thing I mentioned, but there's not much other choice. If you put it on the sloping upper bout, I don't think it will hold a strap.

The problem with both the Tutmarc and the Steinberger is that their designers never really played them. The body shape simply doesn't work as well as a classic guitar shape, and if they were designed by players, they would not have come out like that. Steinberger had to add all kinds of mechanical crap to his 'clean' 'minimal' design to get it to work. Tutmarc actually played guitar, so I don't understand how he came to this shape over something more traditional. Ned Steinberger was not a musician at all. The Vox Phantom and Teardrop were also famous for being lousy players.

Nowadays, innovation is the number-one buzzword in the media. Innovative design is not necessarily good design. Sometimes they're the same, more often they are not. The Precision bass was both. Innovation purely for its own sake is bullstuff. Tutmarc's design needs a little help to really work its best, that's all I'm saying.

 

[KohanMike]

I see what you're saying, but I already cut it (actually last week) and I really want to retain the look. I stand when playing and always use a strap, even sitting, so maybe that will help. I'll probably put the strap button just above the neck into the edge of the body.

 

[KohanMike]

OK all, the AudioVox Serenader tribute mod I did on the new model Rondo Hadean 22-33 longer scale solid body is done. As a reminder, what started me on this was a post on TB asking to show a bass bought because it was from the year they were born. I looked up 1949 and found that that only one was the AudioVox Serenader created by Paul Tutmarc (the first solid body electric bass from 1939), so I decided to mod the 22-33 I bought a couple weeks earlier that I put on hold for an inspiration to come, and it came.

I cut off the horns, didn't do a great job (but found Eric's Guitars in Van Nuys, CA who will be doing all my mods from now on). I then had Pat Wilkins paint it gold instead of grey with matching headplate (as always a great job). I designed the headplate logo from the original based on Alder's design and printed it on decal inkjet paper and applied it (the date is my birth month). I had Eric make the pickguard and thumbrest (again, excellent work). I added the Road Toad black Pahoehoe strings and the black & gold knobs. The electronics in the new 22-33 are definitely much better than the shorter old models.

The entire project took about 8 weeks, being that I can drive to both Pat and Eric's places, which are about half an hour from me and 10 minutes from each other. After waiting 7 months for a simpler mod on another Hadean, and almost a year on another, I've now discovered the best places to get the work done in a much shorter time, which makes me very happy (because I have other ideas in mind).

 

[moonshinegtrs]

Kohanmike; That is really cool looking!

Nice job.



Moonshine