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Tutmarc audiovox model 736: where are they?

You know whats even crazier? 37" scale basses. I could probably play one but I don't think I would want to own one. I was saying in my earlier post that I played 30" scale exclusively for a few years. They were Jerry Jones Longhorns. Sort of a boutique Danelectro Longhorn which I have also owned but handed over to my Granddaughter a couple years ago. I do like the Dano's very much. The reason I got the JJ Longhorn was because I was in an accident and herniated some discs in my lower back and my Jazz bass was pure torture to play and the JJ was so light and effortless. I wish more makers would step up to the plate with shortscale strings. I've used longscales on shorts before but you run the risk of snapping a string at the tuning post. I believe another reason Leo went with the longer scale was the notes on the E string were clearer or so he thought. I never really noticed much of a difference but I stuck with Dano's for short scale and can't speak of the others and never compared them to long scales.
 
Thanks for the lengthy and thoughtful reply. My first four basses were short-scales, but that was decades ago. And I also play double bass.

If you're asking more specifically about the "rubber band" strings, they are totally unlike anything else. They are not especially floppy, but they are much stickier than wire strings, so many players use talc on their hands. If you try to bend a note, the string sticks to your finger and rolls, and there is no real effect on the pitch. So you learn not to do that, and a lot of other things as well. After experimenting on the uke for a while, I got bored with it, detuned the strings to preserve them, and set it aside in favor of more conventional instruments. The sound is somewhat reminiscent of an acoustic bass, mostly deep and thuddy. Turning up the treble merely accentuated the finger noise, which is already pretty bad. The instrument itself has no treble, which led me to replace the good active tone controls that I had originally installed with a salvaged Squier active bass thing, just to act as a buffer for the piezos. I thought the Squier part was pretty bad in a real bass, but it seems quite suited to the uke.

You can find a video of Leland Sklar noodling on one of these on Kala's website I think. HERE He seems to get a big kick out of it, and he is a thousand times better player than me, so these things are certainly useable. This is also interesting. I built mine out of curiosity, and didn't care for it much, but as they say, your mileage may vary ...

Some of the other posters seem to be wanting to compare the uke bass to other basses. You really can't, it is that different. Kohanmike's 736 uke is styled after a Tutmarc, but really couldn't be more different. If you spread out the strings on Tutmarc's design, you would have essentially a modern bass. The ergonomics of that tiny body are no worse than what Ned Steinberger 'invented' many years later.
 
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Actually the Kala stock Paehoehoe strings are not sticky at all. They take a while to stretch out and stay in tune but once there they pretty much stay there and the strings last forever. The Aquilla Thunderguts as well as Silver Rumblers in my opinion are horrible. They can sound ok, but they are terribly sticky and they tend to sausage and need to be replaced from time to time. I had to powder them every few minutes in order to play them. And no you can't bend them that's for sure! And your best bet IMHO is a fretless. The fretted ones seem to have intonation issues quite a bit. And they don't have high end, but lots of bottom and thump. You can install Kala's new metal strings for a more traditional bass sound, but I'm sticking with Paehoehoes because I want it to play and sound different than a traditional bass. I find them a blast to play and sound great!
 
Actually the Kala stock Paehoehoe strings are not sticky at all. They take a while to stretch out and stay in tune but once there they pretty much stay there and the strings last forever. The Aquilla Thunderguts as well as Silver Rumblers in my opinion are horrible. They can sound ok, but they are terribly sticky and they tend to sausage and need to be replaced from time to time. I had to powder them every few minutes in order to play them. And no you can't bend them that's for sure! And your best bet IMHO is a fretless. The fretted ones seem to have intonation issues quite a bit. And they don't have high end, but lots of bottom and thump. You can install Kala's new metal strings for a more traditional bass sound, but I'm sticking with Paehoehoes because I want it to play and sound different than a traditional bass. I find them a blast to play and sound great!

Those metal strings look very interesting. My uke bass has a floating bridge, so intonation should not be a problem. Do you know what the end-to-end length is?
 
My Tutmarc Serenader is a tribute, not a copy, done purposely. I will never play a bass longer than 24" scale, have no reason to.

As 1stnamebassist said, sorry to hijack the thread, but I prefer the Road Toad Pahoehoe super smooth strings to the terribly sticky Aquila Thunderguts, including the Thunder Reds. I'm using the Kala metal wound nylon core on two of my basses, the custom 21" scale fretless acoustic, and my Rondo Hadean solid body 21" scale. Both play and sound very good, the strings are approximately 30" total length.
 
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OK, to get the thread back on track, this:

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As I said, Tutmarc's design was less than optimal. It is almost impossible to arrange the headstock so all the tuners clear each other, the body is too small, the 'lap' curve is in the wrong place, and the whole thing is out of balance, sitting or standing. I know - I built one. You can see in these templates that I have addressed each of these issues, while maintaining the overall style of the original. I have a couple of bodies and one bass neck roughed-out, and when I clamp them together, they feel good. Like the body, the headstock maintains Tutmarc's reverse-flare style, but in a workable form.

tutmarc_736_reissue.jpg

This is my first model. Take a close look at the tuners.​

Other changes are: a tone control, standard output jack, dual modern pickups, bass tuners, and a proper neck and bridge. This will turn out something like an old Vox Phantom or Teardrop, except that this shape actually works much better than either of those. This shape has very much normal guitar ergonomics, without bolting on all kinds of kludgy extensions like Steinberger had to resort to to make his thing playable.

The Telecaster and Les Paul shapes were really nothing new, the breakthrough was Fender's extended upper horn, pioneered on the Precision and perfected on the Stratocaster. The upper horn allows much better balance on a strap. Without it, a normal 34" bass neck generally heads straight for the floor, so all of these will be short-scale basses or standard guitars.

The pickguard template is a modified tracing of the body of my first Tutmarc, which is fairly true to the original, but slightly enlarged. The ass-end of the body template is roughly a Stratocaster, adapted to fit the poplar blanks I have which are a bit narrow. The chamber template is for hollow-bodies. The neck pocket is a standard Strat. The bridge template lays out all the common bridges for both bass and guitar, because I got sick of all the guesswork and fiddling. You can see the headstock is drilled for both guitar and bass, and the body allows for a range of bridge and pickup placements, so I can build pretty much any kind of instrument I want.

Poplar is a wonderful wood for a guitar body, think of it as 'eastern alder'. The necks will be standard rock maple. I've tried other woods for necks, and found no reason to use anything else. These are woods I can easily source, there is nothing magic about walnut, Tutmarc used it for the same reason. Chambered and hollow bodies will use plywood sides and various faces.

This is an engineered approach to make this design work. In the coming months I will have actual examples to show, but right now I have a ton of yardwork to do. For the past month or so this project got shelved while I was building furniture - racks to store all these stupid things. Here's a neat little piece that was an afterthought. I call it a 'Playstation'.

playstation.jpg

The retaining bar across the necks is removable. In case there's an earthquake, I guess. Or a dog-quake - little idiot that he is.​

Oops - took the thread off-track again !
 
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"As I said, Tutmarc's design was less than optimal. It is almost impossible to arrange the headstock so all the tuners clear each other, the body is too small, the 'lap' curve is in the wrong place, and the whole thing is out of balance, sitting or standing. I know - I built one."

I had to laugh !!! That is what I ran into on my copy also, and my repro was as close to the original as I could make it
 
"As I said, Tutmarc's design was less than optimal. It is almost impossible to arrange the headstock so all the tuners clear each other, the body is too small, the 'lap' curve is in the wrong place, and the whole thing is out of balance, sitting or standing. I know - I built one."

I had to laugh !!! That is what I ran into on my copy also, and my repro was as close to the original as I could make it

Yup - it's a nice design to be inspired by, but not a good thing to copy too closely. Looks like you did an almost perfect job. For an encore, try making a second updated one.
 
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Alder, you do great work and those mods are brilliant. One of the main reasons my mod looks like it does is because I wanted to keep the work very simple using the basic configuration of the Rondo Hadean.

To add to the hijack, I had a custom Telecaster bass 22" scale made by Bruce Herron of Blue Star Guitar in Michigan. I provided the cheap Chinese hardware and electronics, he custom made the pickup plate and had it chromed. I had him cut a chamber in the back so that I could use standard short scale 30" strings with string-through. All in was about $700.

Tele bass NBD 1.jpg

Carvin rig and me.jpg
 
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Box O 'Vox

This thread needs a bump. How about this:

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That's a whole lot of sawing and gluing and sanding. I need a shower and a nap.

Up to now, most of my builds were one-offs. I had a rough idea what I wanted to make, but much of the details came during the build process - not the most efficient way to work. For these, I first made a full-scale drawing. From that I made a prototype neck and body, to make sure it felt good. From the prototype I made the templates above. There are three templates for the body: the outside contour, the inside contour ( if hollow ) and the pickguard.

These are tracing templates, not routing templates. The actual shaping is done with saw and sander. Any time I can avoid routing, I do. As you can see, the bodies are all about as uniform as handwork will get.

The trick is the inside contour or cavity template for the hollow-bodies, which is most of them. The cavity, and the structure around it, is designed to allow for a wide variety of bridge, pickup, and control placements, given the size and shape of the pickguard, which is rather unusual compared to a Fender or Gibson. That also leaves a large block of wood at the ass-end of the body to act as a counterweight for the neck.

Thus, from one standard design, using a standardized neck pocket and cavity, I can build a guitar, or a short-scale bass of 20-24 frets, a baritone, or even a ukulele. I could also build a long-scale bass, but I have no interest in that, nor the two-octave short-scale, as the neck would be too long for the horn-less body, and the whole thing would be unbalanced.

This is very much the way Danelectro did things back in the day - one size fits all. I am still in awe of the wonderful and inexpensive guitars they built in the factory at Neptune. Too bad Paul Tutmarc didn't think like Nathan Daniel. I'm glad to see that someone has picked up the designs and tradition of Danelectro. Modern Danelectros are great guitars, well worth a look when you get tired of Fenders and Gibsons.

Back to the subject - it's going to be a long time before any of these are finished. I also have a box full of necks, and one bought one to study the scarf joint. Right now I just want to get all the gross woodworking done while I can set up outside and just let all the sawdust blow away and fertilize the grass. If not for the breather mask, I probably would have poisoned myself by now.

Two of the blanks are solid poplar, two are 5/4" soft pine from Lowes, which will be faced with nice hard maple plywood, and three are plywood from a dumpster, which will be faced with masonite - the greatest tone-wood of all ! Damaged sheets of plywood and masonite can often be had at the hardware store for pennies, and are perfect for luthiery, but when I can trash-pick tone-woods, that's even better. 3/4" hard maple from Home Depot or Lowes is perfect for necks, the only thing that's harder to find is fingerboard material, except for more maple. Many flooring woods are entirely appropriate for fingerboards. I have a lot more on the subject here.

Nice day to do some gluing:

P5081375.JPG


This is what the internal layout of the hollow-bodies looks like. It will never see the light of day again. The pine ones have thicker walls, as I have no doubts about the plywood, but the pine might crack if I make it too thin. The faces are over-sized, so that they lap the entire edge of the frame. This is how the new Danelectros are made, the old ones used pieces of poplar tacked together to form the frame.

P5081373.JPG


Bob Vila says you can't have too many clamps, and he's right. I don't have enough of these clamps to do more than one body at a time, so this is going to take a while. The little baking timer is a great help - I can go off and do other things while the glue sets up for 30 minutes, then come back and do another. A good day for gluing is cool and not too dry, so you have enough working time with the glue.

When they are all done, there will be one more trip to the belt sander to bring the rough edges in smooth. The plywood also needs some wood filler in spots. I like the two-part Minwax, which is just like Bondo. These Danelectro-style bodies will ultimately get Tolex bindings, so the finish on the sides doesn't matter much, but I don't want any holes. The masonite needs no sanding, filling, or smoothing at all, nor does it chip, you just have to be careful not to get it wet, and masonite dust is particularly awful. It's really a brilliant way to build an inexpensive but nice guitar.

Oh, the bell just rang ... back to it !

P5081378.JPG


And finally, all edges filled and sanded smooth, and belly cuts on the solid-bodies. Using the templates, I can now lay out new centerlines, neck pockets, cutouts, etc. The solid and plywood bodies are 1-3/4" thick and weigh about 4.2 pounds. The pine bodies are 1-1/2" thick and much lighter at about 2.6 pounds. I don't want to hang a long heavy neck on a body that light, I will have to re-arrange my plans a bit. Time to build some necks.
 
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Wow! That's a LOT of bodies! Does this mean that you are going to make several Tutmarc Tributes? If so, will any of them be available for purchase? I am in awe over the work you've been doing, and am fully cognizant of the fact that I do not possess the skills to make one of these for myself. As I stated early on in the process of this thread, I would be interested in owning a modernized "Classic Vibe/Tribute"-style Tutmarc bass.
 
Here are the first two bodies, almost ready for final finishing:

P5301393.JPG


These are solid poplar, with a 3/8" radius and relief on the back, and white binding on the front. In staining them, I took advantage of poplar's very bad staining properties. The color on the can is a light brown, while the color on the bodies is pretty much walnut. I already knew that staining raw poplar would do that. Pre-treating, say with several coats of 'natural' stain before the color coat, gives a completely different shade. Just goes to show that the results of a stain job have much more to do with the wood and application than the color on the can. The manufacturers offer myriad shades that are almost indistinguishable, and it really doesn't matter. I've made this same stain come out honey-brown, and everything in between, and I use it on everything from guitars to furniture.

I did all the routing and smoothing first, including the binding notch. My binding jig turns out to be nearly foolproof if you use a bit with a smaller diameter than the follower. That causes the bit to lose contact with the piece whenever the angle is not perfectly perpendicular. In other words, it cuts shallower if your angle is off, whereas a larger bit would cut deeper, which would be bad. The binding didn't take on one of them, the stain caused the glue to not adhere, so I pulled it off, cleaned out the notch, and did it again. The moral of the story is that you want to get the stain all around the notch, but as little as possible actually in it, and let it dry for a good long time. You need to stain first, otherwise the glue soaks into the wood and will repel the stain. After I got everything smoothed down, I re-stained, and then buffed the bindings back to white with 1000. They're almost ready for a nice thick coat of poly.

The other bodies are coming along as well.
 
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Routed out some pickguards last night

KIMG0012.jpg


Two of them are pearl plastic, each one requires an entire blank, with a lot of waste. The only other pickguard that uses an entire blank like this is the Precision bass. The ever-cost-conscious Leo Fender must have realized that was a mistake, and never repeated it. It would have gotten too expensive for me to make them all that way, so the others are 3/16" Masonite, a la Danelectro, for about 50 cents each. You can get a Masonite 'blank' at Home Depot or Lowes for about the same price as a guitar pickguard blank. The difference is, the masonite blank will be 4 feet by 8 feet ! This is pre-finished white on one side, it is typically unfinished very dark brown, which you can see around the edges. The white finish is not really good enough to use itself, but it makes a good base layer for whatever you want to do with it. A thin coat of flat white enamel, and several coats of water-based poly-urethane will do for me ( water-based poly does not yellow like oil-based. )

There are a lot of nice things about Masonite pickguards: They require far fewer screws - Danelectro would attach quite expansive ones with as few as three screws, and they stay flat and tight just fine. The screws are also typically not counter-sunk, which saves a lot of bother, although there is no reason you could not counter-sink them if you want. I think just four screws each should be enough for this shape, nice and neat; the plastic guards will take twice that number. The edges of a Masonite pickguard are square, not beveled, which saves a really bothersome second routing stage, although you could bevel them if you want. I would use a standard angled laminate bit rather than a 45 degree bevel if I was going to do that. You can either paint the edges the same as the face, or sand off the over-spray to get a quick black(ish) outline. You can paint them any color you like, then put a tough protective poly clear-coat over it. Or you can just clear-coat it directly - Masonite 'grain' looks really cool under a polished clear finish. The same material also makes nice body faces - no wood is as smooth and even as Masonite - it is by far the easiest material to finish, and is also easy to cut and route. Drawbacks of Masonite are that it produces the most awful fine choking dust when working it, a breather mask is essential. Also, Masonite swells on contact with water, which can be an issue when wet-sanding and polishing a finish. Fill-in all pre-drilled holes prior to finishing, leaving just dimples to mark the locations, then drill them out after all the wet-work is done. This is true of wood as well, but Masonite swells really badly.

A proper template is critical for routing a pickguard. It supports the work piece and provides a guide for the router. While these bodies are hand-made to very close tolerances, the pickguards are exact - you can stack them like a deck of cards. I probably spent more time making the template than cutting out the pickguards from it. This template is 3/4" cabinet-grade void-free oak plywood that I trash-picked somewhere. A certain lack of pride can save a lot of money. If I was making just one pickguard, I might have just traced it out on the material and shaped it on the belt sander. You can make a beveled edge by hand with a file - that's what I did on my first Audiovox build. But I would recommend that only for a small simple piece, like a Les Paul or a Hofner. For a project like this, I would make a routing template first, even if I was making just one.

Tooling is important, I'm now up to five templates for this project: body, cavity, 2 pickguards, and headstock. I'll need to make a couple more for pickups and battery boxes. That takes time up front, but saves work in the end.

KIMG0006.jpg


These are the three different body styles I'm working on:

On the left is a modern Danelectro Masonite over a chambered plywood core. Again, the plywood came from a dumpster. Those will get a painted finish with Danelectro-style Tolex binding. Probably a cream-pearl black-burst, I haven't made a final decision. In the middle is solid poplar stained to walnut, with single white binding. Better lumberyards will often stock 'non-dimensional' poplar up to 13 inches wide by 7/4 thick, which is entirely suitable for this style of body.

On the right is 1/4" maple plywood over a chambered pine core, with amber binding. The core is 8" x 5/4" white pine stock from Lowes that is good enough to edge-glue into guitar-sized blanks. Pick through the pile to find the straightest clearest piece. With 1/4" plywood faces, you get a very lightweight body with a thickness of about 1-5/8". Note the nice color match between the pine sides and the maple veneer faces. There are some small splotches of dark pine pitch showing, but I can live with that. Most pieces come out clear; there's no telling if that will happen or not until you actually cut it out. The pine is soft and easy to work with, but hard enough for a guitar body when finished, and in any case, less of it is exposed after binding. The plywood is very hard and resistant to dings. This nice maple plywood can be ordered from Home Depot in 2'x4' sheets. Lowes sells 4x8' sheets in-store, but they're not as nice; picking through the pile could find a good one. The drawback of this plywood is that the good veneer is very thin and if you sand through it, the project is ruined. I won't touch it with anything coarser than 320, and put a protective coat of poly on it as soon as possible.

Bindings are a nice touch, but a lot more work than a simple round-over. On the solid body, it is purely a decorative touch that I decided to add while doing bindings on the pine bodies and realizing that I had really perfected my binding jig and it was not that difficult. On the piney bodies, the bindings are essential to cover the edges of the plywood. It is nearly impossible to completely hide the fact that you used plywood, no matter how you fill and paint it. On the Danelectro bodies, it doesn't matter, the glued-on Tolex binding covers all sins, and a little roughness just makes it adhere better. The masonite faces get a 1/4" round-over which just touches the plywood core, the glue joint disappears under the finish. 'Classic' Danelectros actually used a bevel cut on the body edge, but a round-over is easier to work with during finishing. No reason you could not use plastic binding with a Masonite face.

The next step is to drill and screw the pickguards to the bodies, and then route out for the pickups and other hardware. I have kits for a guitar and bass of each, including a 12-string and a fretless, and one more for a uke bass. The necks will all be flamed maple, angled headstock, with various fretboards. If I use a maple fretboard, I can source all the neck woods from Home Depot and Lowes. I have a stock of nice flamed maple for fretboards, and a selection of other woods and a few pre-made fretboards. The necks are all at a very crude stage right now. The neck attachments are use ferrules, as a standard neck plate obviously wouldn't work. I like ferrules, they let you do anything you want, and set flush with the wood. Fortunately, I can use standard truss rods, shortened to fit, rather than build them from scratch. That will save some work.

Progress is slow, as I am working on all of them simultaneously. I'm going to be busy with these for a long while, and I have a couple of other projects in the works as well.
 
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