Risking another round of no comments, here is another modification with the tuners in decent spacing. I changed it to a black color since that is what it will look like. For some reason, some people can get really stuck on the color.... The lower horn wouldn't be as pointy and the body would match the angle of the tuners a little better, but I just wanted to do a quick mockup.
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Twisted neck, composite headless
- Thread starter AndreasMergner
- Start date
The design is looking pretty good in my opinion. If you are still worried about tuner spacing, you could use Sperzel tuners; those are pretty small, but they're locking tuners and some people don't like that on bass. Can't wait to see some pictures of a prototype!
and LEDS installed in the fretboard.
and four pickups
and..and..
regardless of your skill id say not to build something this extreme first. build a more basic thing for your first build then if it comes out good go all out on number two. a twisted neck build is pretty intence, from what i can gather..
I'm not even considering selling necks at this point. If I think of it as a business at this point it will drive me crazy. I'm just trying to make a bass that will be different than everyone else's and hopefully be one that I'll like to play. If it turns out great, then I'll go from there. (Thanks for the confidence though!)
Good call. Just keep it in mind though. Even if you don't do fully finished necks, a neck blank with a twisted face cut on it would open up the option to a lot of amateur builders.
No pressure though. It needs to stay fun.
I'm in a similar boat, really. Building a unique bass. Maybe it will be awesome, maybe it will be crap, but I'm not thinking of it as a business, and I'll learn a ton either way.
-Nick
A little pointy for my taste, but it's really hard to tell from a 2d sketch. It certainly doesn't look bad, though. It looks fairly balanced visually, which is a good thing. There's nothing much that totally draws the eye as "out of place"
It does sound ambitious, but if you read the thread, he sounds like one of the few people who will actually go through with building it.
If I had a CNC mill, you can bet that my first build would have been twisted, too.
As it is, my first build was a fanned fret that everyone advised me against. It still needs some minor finishing details I never got around to, but it plays well.
Link Removed My biggest regrets have been not doing the neck from scratch, and wasting money on the hipshot bridges, when cheap ebay ones would have been as good at 20% of the cost.
I agree though.. be realistic about your abilities. A lot of people start something really ambitious, and then hit a major snag half way through and give up.
OTOH, if you know you can do it, go for it. If you're thorough enough in your planning, it'll all work out.
-Nick
Hi.
the M3 bolts holding the strings sounds "a bit" ambitious from an engineering standpoint (Mech. BEng.). Even though the only M3 allens You''ll get are 12.9 variety, you'll run into problems. Even a slight bend will screw up the threads.
What I'd do, as You have a headstock stub, would be to install ferrules and string it through the "headstock".
As for the tuners, if You're going to use small body Schaller type tuners, You can make smaller leafs to get a tighter fit. They will be harder to turn, but that's the only trade-off. The slowest gearing will help.
Regards
Sam
the M3 bolts holding the strings sounds "a bit" ambitious from an engineering standpoint (Mech. BEng.). Even though the only M3 allens You''ll get are 12.9 variety, you'll run into problems. Even a slight bend will screw up the threads
.What I'd do, as You have a headstock stub, would be to install ferrules and string it through the "headstock".
As for the tuners, if You're going to use small body Schaller type tuners, You can make smaller leafs to get a tighter fit. They will be harder to turn, but that's the only trade-off. The slowest gearing will help.
Regards
Sam
You can use 3 mm dowel pins instead of M3 screws. There was a bridge I saw before that did this. About 40% stronger, due to a tensile stress area of ~7.07 mm^2 versus 5.03 mm^2, and that's not even counting the stress riser aspect of a threaded product.
Where to start? Lots of good comments while I've been sleeping!
Those Sperzel tuners look nice and compact. I will certainly consider them for my next project. I got my set of Gotoh tuners for $25 delivered, so they were a bargain. I'm assuming the locking mechanism keeps the instrument in tune better(?).
This is a complicated build for sure....a lot (all?) of it is because of the headless, twisted neck design....but that is also what makes it worth doing. If I wanted a traditional bass, I would have bought one for a few hundred $$$ and been done with it.
I would consider making neck blanks, but then everyone will want something different (# of strings, width, length, fret placement, etc..). I can see it snowballing and I haven't even made one yet!
Let's see how it goes....
I like the pic of the cat! It cracks me up.
I originally was going to use ferrules and string through the headstock. I even ordered the ferrules. I realized after looking at them and the strings that the strings would need to make a very small radius turn to lay flat on the zero fret. This turn would be over the sharp metal edge of the ferrule with the thickest part of the string. The string is doubled up around the ball and the headstock is only about 5/8" thick or so.
I checked and a 4-40 bolt is basically the same size as an M3. I have 4-40 hardware in my shop so I can mount up a string between a tuner and a 4-40 bolt. I can empirically test the setup. I am not worried about ruining threads because I will never need to tighten or loosen the bolt while the string is under tension. I did some quick bending load calculations, and the bolts should be able to hold the tension of tuning, but not sure about playing! Plus some of the measurements/calculations were estimates and assumptions.
Dowel pins would be a lot stronger. I guess if they are angled away from the tuners, they should keep the strings on just fine. I don't want the balls moving around on the pins as that will mess with the action.
The pre-amp that I was going to get at GFS went out of stock before I could buy it, so I'll just be using a blend pot until then. That should make the electronics a snap. I'm pretty much ready to go except for that. Hopefully I'll start cutting something in the near future.
Those Sperzel tuners look nice and compact. I will certainly consider them for my next project. I got my set of Gotoh tuners for $25 delivered, so they were a bargain. I'm assuming the locking mechanism keeps the instrument in tune better(?).
This is a complicated build for sure....a lot (all?) of it is because of the headless, twisted neck design....but that is also what makes it worth doing. If I wanted a traditional bass, I would have bought one for a few hundred $$$ and been done with it.
I would consider making neck blanks, but then everyone will want something different (# of strings, width, length, fret placement, etc..). I can see it snowballing and I haven't even made one yet!
Let's see how it goes....I like the pic of the cat! It cracks me up.
I originally was going to use ferrules and string through the headstock. I even ordered the ferrules. I realized after looking at them and the strings that the strings would need to make a very small radius turn to lay flat on the zero fret. This turn would be over the sharp metal edge of the ferrule with the thickest part of the string. The string is doubled up around the ball and the headstock is only about 5/8" thick or so.
I checked and a 4-40 bolt is basically the same size as an M3. I have 4-40 hardware in my shop so I can mount up a string between a tuner and a 4-40 bolt. I can empirically test the setup. I am not worried about ruining threads because I will never need to tighten or loosen the bolt while the string is under tension. I did some quick bending load calculations, and the bolts should be able to hold the tension of tuning, but not sure about playing! Plus some of the measurements/calculations were estimates and assumptions.
Dowel pins would be a lot stronger. I guess if they are angled away from the tuners, they should keep the strings on just fine. I don't want the balls moving around on the pins as that will mess with the action.
The pre-amp that I was going to get at GFS went out of stock before I could buy it, so I'll just be using a blend pot until then. That should make the electronics a snap. I'm pretty much ready to go except for that. Hopefully I'll start cutting something in the near future.
Yeah, I think you're on the right track.. The ferrules sound like a bad idea. I think your bolt idea will be fine, as long as you use decent hardware. some nice stiff pins (Stainless perhaps?) angled slightly back sounds like an excellent alternative if your testing on the bolt thing goes badly. I'm sure it'll be fine though. playing doesn't increase the string tension by a huge amount. Just test them screwed to a board and see how much abuse/overtension it'll take before it breaks. My bet is the string will snap first if the bolt is nice and tight. Just be sure to wear the safety gear, especially if you're pulling it back like a bow..
-Nick
I'm a fairly new player as well but a life long jack of all trades. Thinking of building a bass but maybe the personal helicopter first! Anyway after reading this whole thread with much interest I thought I'd share this bass builders link with all. You may get some ideas. http://www.kingbass.com/index.html
Good luck with this project.
Good luck with this project.
ppk: This isn't my first big project. The solid wood planes I made were much more complicated. That doesn't mean I won't make a mistake along the line....but I can always cut more wood. I have enough for 30 basses probably.
That kingbass website has a lot of good info on the "How I build a bass" page. It is interesting to see different ways of doing things. I would recommend building a bass before a personal helicopter. That's just my opinion. It's cheaper, easier, and even if you fail you'll still be able to live to try the other project.
I made my first bass today!!! Ok, so it was a one string, acoustic, fretless made out of a pine 1 x 2.....but still!
I tested out the 4-40 bolt holding the head stock end of the string. It worked just fine. I didn't have a tuner with me, so I made sure to crank in a lot of tension. The 1 x 2 was bowing pretty good, which is saying something since it was hard to get that sort of bowing by hand. I didn't have the exact same threaded inserts, so I'll have to order some and try it again. The only downside was that action was a little high. 
That kingbass website has a lot of good info on the "How I build a bass" page. It is interesting to see different ways of doing things. I would recommend building a bass before a personal helicopter. That's just my opinion. It's cheaper, easier, and even if you fail you'll still be able to live to try the other project.
I made my first bass today!!! Ok, so it was a one string, acoustic, fretless made out of a pine 1 x 2.....but still!
I tested out the 4-40 bolt holding the head stock end of the string. It worked just fine. I didn't have a tuner with me, so I made sure to crank in a lot of tension. The 1 x 2 was bowing pretty good, which is saying something since it was hard to get that sort of bowing by hand. I didn't have the exact same threaded inserts, so I'll have to order some and try it again. The only downside was that action was a little high. Hey! I have a neck now!!
I spent the morning getting everything set up and then started the CNC router. I made one error in that it took a bit of wood off near where the upper horn is going meet the neck. I'm sure I can fix it somehow.
I'm thinking I'll just try to get this done without worrying too much the finer details. That way it will be more fun and less stressful.
I've got some pics coming, but I'm having trouble getting them all from my phone.
The neck feel REALLY good in my hands. Holding the root and octave at F doesn't tweak my wrist like it does on the Ric. If I twist the neck to where I'm used to it pretzels my wrist right up. The twisted neck really makes a huge difference! ...and the twist isn't so much that you can't tell where your fingers are.
I think I could get away without carbon fiber for the next one if I were to do some laminations in the neck....although the fret board would be poplar.
The balance seems really good too.
I spent the morning getting everything set up and then started the CNC router. I made one error in that it took a bit of wood off near where the upper horn is going meet the neck. I'm sure I can fix it somehow.
I'm thinking I'll just try to get this done without worrying too much the finer details. That way it will be more fun and less stressful.
I've got some pics coming, but I'm having trouble getting them all from my phone.
The neck feel REALLY good in my hands. Holding the root and octave at F doesn't tweak my wrist like it does on the Ric. If I twist the neck to where I'm used to it pretzels my wrist right up. The twisted neck really makes a huge difference! ...and the twist isn't so much that you can't tell where your fingers are.
I think I could get away without carbon fiber for the next one if I were to do some laminations in the neck....although the fret board would be poplar.
The balance seems really good too.
I guess it is just a different business model than the other forums I'm on.
Today I routed out the slot for the trussrod -- no problems. I bought the parts for the LEDs. I have an assortment so I can see what I like and then buy a full set. I'm using sockets so I can change the LEDs whenever I want.
Tomorrow I'll drill the holes for the LEDs, do some wiring, glue in the wood over the truss rod and maybe get it sanded enough to put the carbon fiber on.
Tomorrow I'll drill the holes for the LEDs, do some wiring, glue in the wood over the truss rod and maybe get it sanded enough to put the carbon fiber on.
I don't know if anyone has mentioned it or not, but have you considered how difficult it is to have a twisted neck and a straight body, as had been discussed on the first page? You will effectively need to have fanned frets at that point, because the treble strings are going to travel a longer distance than the bass strings. The reason why all other twisted designs (at least that i've seen) continue the twist to the bridge is so the scale length is maintained. With this design, you're effectively stopping the twist halfway...unless you sink the bridge at the appropriate angle. Yikes.
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