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U.S. Peavey Club
- Thread starter Soundchaser11460
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- Apr 18, 2008
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- Disclosures
- I'm highly opinionated and extremely self-assured
Correct sir, I have a hackberry and a meranti Patriot body.Seems like hackberry is oh so slightly harder than ash on the janka scale so I'm hoping it adds more clank.
Janka measures the wood's resistance to denting, and is relevant for fingerboards, but not so much for necks/bodies.
What matters for necks/bodies is the bending stiffness, as well as any resonances that will absorb string energy.
I suspect that most woods with a high Janka rating will also have a relatively high stiffness, so in very general terms you may assume a correlation.
I've been thinking about tracing one of my Patriot bodies as a template too...I really love this body shape and it's balance. I'm sorely tempted to create a "what if?" XsoGol signature Patriot with laminates and a beautiful wood top (what if? as in "what if Hartley Peavey has decided to make a Prestige line a la Ibanez for his amazing 80s basses and that Prestige line had a lot of the same stylings and wood options as the Cirrus line...). Please everyone tell me not to do this...I have a problem.
You really really need to do this! In fact, I'll race ya!
I read a comment in The Wood Database that Fender used Hackberry in the 70's, so Peavey could have gotten the idea from Fender.
I always assumed that Fender would have used Oregon ash because of it being grown pretty close to Fender.
The Wood Database says that in the United States, baseball bats and tool handles are made from Oregon ash, Black ash, Blue ash, Green ash, Pumkin ash, White ash and Hackberry.
I believe Peavey could have used several of those because White ash, Pumkin ash, Green ash, and Hackberry are all grown and milled in the eastern United States which works well for sourcing it cheaply.
I've checked The Wood Database for Average Dried Weights and Janka Hardness Numbers on all of them and they would have all made a fairly similar bass body in weight and hardness.
As far as weight goes, it seems Fender and later on Peavey (T40/T45/T20) were not thinking much about weight, back in the 60's, 70's and into early 80's....people liked the idea of a heavy bass for sustain and good sound, the same way people still chase high mass bridges now.
Based on hardness, I would guess that Hackberry, Black ash, and Pumkin ash would be the easiest on cutting tools to make bodies out of, but if they make baseball bats and tool handles out of that longer list of woods, so maybe all of these fit the profile for making bodies.
Janka Hardness numbers:
Hackberry 880
Black ash 850
Blue ash 1290
Green ash 1200
Oregon ash 1160
Pumkin ash 990
White ash 1320
Just for reference....Hard Maple is 1450
I always assumed that Fender would have used Oregon ash because of it being grown pretty close to Fender.
The Wood Database says that in the United States, baseball bats and tool handles are made from Oregon ash, Black ash, Blue ash, Green ash, Pumkin ash, White ash and Hackberry.
I believe Peavey could have used several of those because White ash, Pumkin ash, Green ash, and Hackberry are all grown and milled in the eastern United States which works well for sourcing it cheaply.
I've checked The Wood Database for Average Dried Weights and Janka Hardness Numbers on all of them and they would have all made a fairly similar bass body in weight and hardness.
As far as weight goes, it seems Fender and later on Peavey (T40/T45/T20) were not thinking much about weight, back in the 60's, 70's and into early 80's....people liked the idea of a heavy bass for sustain and good sound, the same way people still chase high mass bridges now.
Based on hardness, I would guess that Hackberry, Black ash, and Pumkin ash would be the easiest on cutting tools to make bodies out of, but if they make baseball bats and tool handles out of that longer list of woods, so maybe all of these fit the profile for making bodies.
Janka Hardness numbers:
Hackberry 880
Black ash 850
Blue ash 1290
Green ash 1200
Oregon ash 1160
Pumkin ash 990
White ash 1320
Just for reference....Hard Maple is 1450
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It really was a successful change in body shape to make a smaller lighter body that still balances well on a strap.
It seems the Patriot body was the gateway to a bunch of Peavey bodies to follow.
So many of them got a long top horn, and they got more and more long and swoopy.
This is good to know, thanks! I will need to dig and see if I can find anything else interesting in the wood db (@58kites great minds think alike
) using these new data points to which I haven't been paying much attention.I do so love how we are all such enablers on this threadYou really really need to do this! In fact, I'll race ya!
Let's go!
Holy shnikies! Looking at body woods from the bending stiffness/elastic modulus perspective REALLY puts things into different context! How I've been looking at these woods (I've added classic Fender, Peavey, Ric woods including some of our favorites like walnut and cherry, and my favorite, mesquite) has looked like this (similar to the list @58kites posted a few posts ago), sorted by Janka hardness (JH):
But when you look at it sorted by elastic modulus (EM...or "bendiness" as I keep saying it in my head), some interesting things come up:
My observations:
- Alder and poplar, tonally, it makes sort of sense why they are similar in that they are similar JH, but polar has an EM closer to ash...so I wonder if poplar is slightly tonally brighter than alder, like ash
- I now get why cherry is called "American Mahogany" as both their EM and JH are similar. But now I don't get why people think of mahogany basses lack articulation...is it because many of the pickups Gibson put in those basses back in the day other than the 60s TBird pickups were muddy?
- Hackberry, despite having a similar JH to ash, is bendy AF compared to poplar or ash. By this rationale, is hackberry tonally darker than ash?
- Meranti, though it looks like mahogany, looks to be much more tonally bright like walnut...which may sort of explain why my meranti '87 Foundation, when paired with a maple neck, is a 70s Geddy prog machine...sounding like his Jazz, but also a bit like his Ric.
- I might need to have my meranti '86 Patriot body routed like @bigtone23 and @Bleecker's RicRiots but with the extra Foundation bridge pickup and make it a StratRiot instead of the hackberry Patriot body.
- I might throw the Dingwall and Novak TBird pickup I have sitting around into the hackberry body instead.
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- Apr 18, 2008
- 16,015
- 1
- 31,728
- Disclosures
- I'm highly opinionated and extremely self-assured
My thoughts? I think that the woods play a very minor role in the tone of an electric instrument.
My preference for maple, walnut, and cherry has more to do with aesthetics and workability, although their stiffness is of course helpful.
My preference for maple, walnut, and cherry has more to do with aesthetics and workability, although their stiffness is of course helpful.
Weight, hardness, color, grain are what I care about.
I don't want anything softer than yellow/tulip poplar at 540 janka and prefer red alder at 590 janka hardness.
I like the weight of poplar, and alder bodies.
My hackberry/ash Fury bass could be a half pound lighter to be ideal, but it's not stupidly heavy like a T40 (with a million pounds of hardware and pickups on it) and it's a beautiful body IMO.
The meranti Patriot is a good weight and is plenty hard enough.
My koa Peavey RSB bass was a nice weight and beautiful, don't know why I sold it (EDIT: now I remember, didn't love the neck).
Solid maple body basses are usually kinda heavy, I like the grain on some maple, and other maple is kinda plain.
I like the way ash/hackberry, meranti, koa, some alder, walnut, cherry, mahogany look with a clear coat or a stain & clear coat. Mission oak furniture is beautiful.
Poplar looks AWESOME... when you put opaque paint on it!
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Argh... once again, I remain sleepless at night.
Someone asked me to compare my GV to my Flea... In a sane mind, I can't suggest someone pay a car's cost for a bass... BUT - if you want to get reasonably close (and still save for retirement)...... argh
I also claimed a Fury = Fender Pbass Special (for some reason, this never caught on)... may be that I commented a first generation import Milestone was just about as fury as a fury is.
- Apr 18, 2008
- 16,015
- 1
- 31,728
- Disclosures
- I'm highly opinionated and extremely self-assured
Maple can indeed be heavy, as can some of these other woods. That is why I've been building thinner bodies, at between 1.25" and 1.5" thick. Less weight, and slightly better ergonomics too.
And yep, I'm a sucker for a nice wood grain under a clear coat!
You should forgive yourself, I've said worse things to a number of people I love.
You should forgive yourself, I've said worse things to a number of people I love.
Yes, but does that speed type get continually get twisted (out of context) and used as false advertising fodder?
At least it's now less frequent.
In the drum world, poplar was used for the thicker middle ply on both Ludwig and Slingerland 3-ply shells in the 50s-early 70s. The thin outer plys were mahogany, then eventually maple. I think the outer plys were mainly to hold the shell together better and provide a better surface for finishing and wrapping/gluing. It was funny when this became public knowledge. Many who eschewed poplar as a 'cheap' wood had to eat their hat, as they had been hearing, playing and loving those drums for decades.
Poplar often gets tonally compared to birch on mono species shells.
Poplar often gets tonally compared to birch on mono species shells.
Hey Peavey gang. I’m dusting off the old TL-Five for tonight’s gig and had to do a 1/4 turn on the truss rod to get it back to 100%. That said, a corner of the truss rod cover broke when I was doing the process. It has been hanging on by a thread since I bought the bass several years ago. I was able to get some glue on it and it’s fine for now. I know if need be I could make my own but I was wondering if anyone knew if there were some out there or if someone was 3D printing them etc? Thanks y’all!
I’ve made them out of ebony - I have them on my RJIV and Sarzo.
I traced the outline of them awhile back.
If this POS HP printer/scanner would work I coul get one converted to .DXF, post it here and you could have some laser cutting place make you one for pennys
Think I'll bite the bullet and replace the HP tomorrow, expect the .dxf shortly afterwards
I know how much you all seem to like basses that arent just black or white. Not affiliated
Peavey Foundation 1984 Pink Peavey Foundation 1984 Pink | Reverb
Peavey Foundation 1984 Pink Peavey Foundation 1984 Pink | Reverb
