Ubiquitous- help me pick an amp/cab

[BlownEL34]

Hey TB community looking for a cabinet(s) and head(s) I played bass for 4 years about 30 years ago and American Deluxe Jazz and 15" Fender BXR combo. I got out of music for a good long stint and started playing again except on guitar. I'm a lucky man because my wife plays guitar (5x better than me) and my two sons picked up keys and drums. So that leave me to now hold down the bottom end, not a bad thing as it was my first love.

Influencing factors: I went out last weekend and bought a Fender 64' custom shop jazz, Fender player II Pbass and a Gibson SG bass I figured that is a good start and a short scale to play with to boot. I still need to get and amp and cabinet. On guitar I exclusively play tube only with 12" speakers. I see that bass player graviate toward solid state. With guitar usually like to play with edge of breakup, crunch or distortion, rarely do I play clean. With my tubes its easy to get saturation and over drive with amp or using pedals and stacking. I want light and small rig. I love John Entwistels tone if i sounded like that I'd behappy. Cost is not a conributing factor in this purchase but end product satisfation is. I'd not like to buy twice as I have a gear affliction of getting more but never selling and I have not much room. Currently Im have two rooms full of gear and cant hold any more!

My shortist of cabs:
Genzler Mallan 12-V
Genzler Nu Classic 112T
Genzler Nu Classic 115
Genzler Nu Classic 210
Bergantino EBXT112
Bergantino Reference II 112 - getting heavy
Bergantino Reference II 115 - getting heavier- a porker
Mesa- but they are heavier and I dont like the metal grill aesthetic, plus I dont gig so I dont need to to survive travel.

My short list of amps:
Bergantino Forte D
Genzler Kinetix 800
Genzler Magellan 800
Genzler Magellan 350
Mesa D-350
Mesa D-800+

Not famillair with Berg but was up close and personal to Mike Watt playing through a Berg 212 and Forte D, and all I can say was WOW! Sounded massive and tone for days, Holy $hit!

** Will a single cab handle the power of the 800 watt amps. Im not cranking them I dont gig.
*** Will all of any of these amps handle pedals well, (chorus, delay, overdrive and distortion)
**** Wich onnes have quiet fan? A constanly runnng or constanly running loud fand would drive me bonkers.
*****Not saying no to Mesa but not happy with what Gibson did to Randall Smith

Sorry for the long read, just trying to be thorough.

 

[ahbass2500]

Mesa D350 has the quietest fan of any on your list (because it does not have a fan). Recently picked one up. Very happy with it. Previously owned a Genzler Magellan 350. It was also a solid amp.

Not going to make a recommendation overall. Your list is all good amps. If you are sensitive to fan noise, the D350 wins. I would probably not bother with anything more than 350 watts if you are not going to be gigging with it.

 

[abarson]

Hey TB community looking for a cabinet(s) and head(s) I played bass for 4 years about 30 years ago and American Deluxe Jazz and 15" Fender BXR combo. I got out of music for a good long stint and started playing again except on guitar. I'm a lucky man because my wife plays guitar (5x better than me) and my two sons picked up keys and drums. So that leave me to now hold down the bottom end, not a bad thing as it was my first love.

Influencing factors: I went out last weekend and bought a Fender 64' custom shop jazz, Fender player II Pbass and a Gibson SG bass I figured that is a good start and a short scale to play with to boot. I still need to get and amp and cabinet. On guitar I exclusively play tube only with 12" speakers. I see that bass player graviate toward solid state. With guitar usually like to play with edge of breakup, crunch or distortion, rarely do I play clean. With my tubes its easy to get saturation and over drive with amp or using pedals and stacking. I want light and small rig. I love John Entwistels tone if i sounded like that I'd behappy. Cost is not a conributing factor in this purchase but end product satisfation is. I'd not like to buy twice as I have a gear affliction of getting more but never selling and I have not much room. Currently Im have two rooms full of gear and cant hold any more!

My shortist of cabs:
Genzler Mallan 12-V
Genzler Nu Classic 112T
Genzler Nu Classic 115
Genzler Nu Classic 210
Bergantino EBXT112
Bergantino Reference II 112 - getting heavy
Bergantino Reference II 115 - getting heavier- a porker
Mesa- but they are heavier and I dont like the metal grill aesthetic, plus I dont gig so I dont need to to survive travel.

My short list of amps:
Bergantino Forte D
Genzler Kinetix 800
Genzler Magellan 800
Genzler Magellan 350
Mesa D-350
Mesa D-800+

Not famillair with Berg but was up close and personal to Mike Watt playing through a Berg 212 and Forte D, and all I can say was WOW! Sounded massive and tone for days, Holy $hit!

** Will a single cab handle the power of the 800 watt amps. Im not cranking them I dont gig.
*** Will all of any of these amps handle pedals well, (chorus, delay, overdrive and distortion)
**** Wich onnes have quiet fan? A constanly runnng or constanly running loud fand would drive me bonkers.
*****Not saying no to Mesa but not happy with what Gibson did to Randall Smith

Sorry for the long read, just trying to be thorough.

Welcome!

Keep these items in mind while shopping.
Cabinets display a specific load to an amp (typically 4 or 8 ohms) and have a maximum power rating of how much power it can sustain without damage.
Amps provide power into a cabinet depending on the load presented to it. In general, an amp provides about half the power into an 8 ohms load than a 4 ohms load. Here's an example of the Genzler Magellan 800 in your list:

• Power Output: 400W/8 Ohms, 800W/4 Ohms and 800W/2.67 Ohms

There are some single 8 ohms cabinets that can sustain 400 watts, but many won't. Most 4 ohms cabinets that can sustain 800 watts would be multi-speaker: 212, 215, 410.
If you are only using this for playing at home, 350 watts is plenty.

 

[BlownEL34]

I know 800 watts is pushing it but I do like the added feature sets of the Magellan 800 over the 350 such as tuner port a pedal loop. Will the Mesa or Genzler 350 take pedals OK in front ok. In the guitar world some will and some wont.....

 

[ahbass2500]

I know 800 watts is pushing it but I do like the added feature sets of the Magellan 800 over the 350 such as tuner port a pedal loop. Will the Mesa or Genzler 350 take pedals OK in front ok. In the guitar world some will and some wont.....

Mesa D350 and Genzler Magellan 350 handle pedals into the input just fine (I ran pedals into both of mine). You can find a ton of info on the D350 at: https://www.talkbass.com/threads/mesa-subway-d-350.1446698/

You can probably search that thread for posts by AgedHorse and get most of your questions about it answered. AgedHorse is an active forum member and a product development engineer at Mesa.

 

[SJan3]

Hey TB community looking for a cabinet(s) and head(s) I played bass for 4 years about 30 years ago and American Deluxe Jazz and 15" Fender BXR combo. I got out of music for a good long stint and started playing again except on guitar. I'm a lucky man because my wife plays guitar (5x better than me) and my two sons picked up keys and drums. So that leave me to now hold down the bottom end, not a bad thing as it was my first love.

Influencing factors: I went out last weekend and bought a Fender 64' custom shop jazz, Fender player II Pbass and a Gibson SG bass I figured that is a good start and a short scale to play with to boot. I still need to get and amp and cabinet. On guitar I exclusively play tube only with 12" speakers. I see that bass player graviate toward solid state. With guitar usually like to play with edge of breakup, crunch or distortion, rarely do I play clean. With my tubes its easy to get saturation and over drive with amp or using pedals and stacking. I want light and small rig. I love John Entwistels tone if i sounded like that I'd behappy. Cost is not a conributing factor in this purchase but end product satisfation is. I'd not like to buy twice as I have a gear affliction of getting more but never selling and I have not much room. Currently Im have two rooms full of gear and cant hold any more!

My shortist of cabs:
Genzler Mallan 12-V
Genzler Nu Classic 112T
Genzler Nu Classic 115
Genzler Nu Classic 210
Bergantino EBXT112
Bergantino Reference II 112 - getting heavy
Bergantino Reference II 115 - getting heavier- a porker
Mesa- but they are heavier and I dont like the metal grill aesthetic, plus I dont gig so I dont need to to survive travel.

My short list of amps:
Bergantino Forte D
Genzler Kinetix 800
Genzler Magellan 800
Genzler Magellan 350
Mesa D-350
Mesa D-800+

Not famillair with Berg but was up close and personal to Mike Watt playing through a Berg 212 and Forte D, and all I can say was WOW! Sounded massive and tone for days, Holy $hit!

** Will a single cab handle the power of the 800 watt amps. Im not cranking them I dont gig.
*** Will all of any of these amps handle pedals well, (chorus, delay, overdrive and distortion)
**** Wich onnes have quiet fan? A constanly runnng or constanly running loud fand would drive me bonkers.
*****Not saying no to Mesa but not happy with what Gibson did to Randall Smith

Sorry for the long read, just trying to be thorough.

Question: if you don't gig, why do you want an 800 watt amp? Get a 350 watt unit. You'll likely not even use that much power. And for a cabinet a 1x12" will be plenty in the home. Go 2x10" if you want a bit more capability.
Advice: make sure you understand ohm ratings and cabinet efficiency so you choose an amp and cab that are a good match. Good luck!

 

[BlownEL34]

Question: if you don't gig, why do you want an 800 watt amp? Get a 350 watt unit. You'll likely not even use that much power. And for a cabinet a 1x12" will be plenty in the home. Go 2x10" if you want a bit more capability.
Advice: make sure you understand ohm ratings and cabinet efficiency so you choose an amp and cab that are a good match. Good luck!


Fair question, on why would I want 800 watts.... I don't but I want the features. But as far as the Magellan 800 is concerned vs the 350 having two channels is a big deal to me, I love the tuner out and the effect loop which is lacking on the little brother. The Kinetix, I dig the all tube preamp,

On the guitar side I play only tube amps, and take it even further mostly hand wired tube amps... yeah I'm 'that' guy. I understand Ohm law, impedance, efficiency etc. I been playing off and on for about 35 years and just getting back into bass, I even built a couple of cabs and tube amps recently a 5e3 circuit and 5f1 circuit. I know I can pair a cabinet with more power than its rated for as long as I don't dime it, Id likely keep it below 12 o'clock.

If we get nuts (some time we do) I wonder if a single 12" with 350 watts really running 175watts will keep out up a 20-50 watt all tube amp going through a Marshall half stack... It doesn't happen often but when it does it is peels the pain of the walls, like $hit your pants loud!

 

[ahbass2500]

Fair question, on why would I want 800 watts.... I don't but I want the features. But as far as the Magellan 800 is concerned vs the 350 having two channels is a big deal to me, I love the tuner out and the effect loop which is lacking on the little brother. The Kinetix, I dig the all tube preamp,

^These things all tell me you are a guitar player buying a bass amp. I do not say that to be mean. I am just pointing out you are assuming features you want on a guitar amp are things you will want on a bass amp. I personally do not think this is the correct approach.

- Most bassists using two channels are doing it to run an upright and an electric. They are fully separate clean channels and not clean/overdrive. If you want clean/overdrive, then buy a good overdrive pedal. Not saying two channels is useless for a clean/overdrive format. I just do not know why you would restrict yourself to the amp's drive sound when you have significantly more options in pedal form. Noting I said most bassists here. There are certainly bassists that are happy with their clean/overdrive bass heads.

- Most bassists do not use an effects loop even when they have one (they tend to just run things to the input). When they do use an effects loop, it is frequently to bypass the internal preamp and use an external one. You can use an effects loop. I just doubt that you need to.

- Tuner out is basically pointless unless the head is rack mounted and you want a rack tuner. A good pedal tuner can run always on or muted (see Peterson StroboStomp Mini) without having to run a line to the back of your amp.

- No comment one way or the other on tube preamp. I have liked and disliked heads with tube preamps. Same is true for heads without tube preamps. Maybe I do have a comment there... go out and try some amps if you can find them near you. Should help you narrow down the list. Should also tell you if the built in features are for you or not. If for example you hated the overdrive sound on the Magellan 800, then clearly that feature is not worth picking the 800 over the 350 for you on that particular amp. Also possible that you love the overdrive and buy the amp on the spot.

None of what I have above is absolute and you can certainly prioritize what you want. I have just not found the features you listed to be particularly important in 25 years of playing. Certainly would not let any of them be a deciding factor for me.

 

[BlownEL34]

Thanks for all the feed back thus far. Id love to play these amps/cabs locally but the only bass amps around me 2-50 watt combos.

 

[JonathanPDX]

I gigged for many many years with a matched pair of Bergantino 1x12 cabs. They are fantastic, I used a Euphonic Audio iAmp Pro head and it was a very clean, modern sound, which may not be what you're looking for. Eventually I got old and looked for more portable options and fell in love with Markbass, I think my 1x12 combo (and it's 1x12 matching extension cab) matches the Bergantino rig in sound, power, and clarity but is much easier to transport.

I also think you may consider pedalboard options and find that your amplifier choices open WAY up when you remove some of your asks, which are just not particularly useful for most bassists, especially someone who isn't gigging. You can run a headstock tuner or a tuner pedal easily and negate any need for an out on your amp, which is only really handy if you have a full rackmount system.

Similarly, most bass players don't use an effects loop, and you can use a pedal like the ToneBone to put a loop and multiple channels right onto your pedalboard without needing those features in your amp, or all the extra hassle of running multiple cables in and out of it. If you want the tube overdrive there are tons of options out there for something you can put on the floor, personally I think Darkglass sounds fantastic but you could fill 50 pages with debate over which pedals best emulate tube distortion.

If you shift from needing those features in the amplifier to putting them on a pedalboard, you can find a lot more possible fits or even a combo like the Markbass that would put out plenty of power while also being very lightweight.

 

[gtirard]

Hey TB community looking for a cabinet(s) and head(s) I played bass for 4 years about 30 years ago and American Deluxe Jazz and 15" Fender BXR combo. I got out of music for a good long stint and started playing again except on guitar. I'm a lucky man because my wife plays guitar (5x better than me) and my two sons picked up keys and drums. So that leave me to now hold down the bottom end, not a bad thing as it was my first love.

Influencing factors: I went out last weekend and bought a Fender 64' custom shop jazz, Fender player II Pbass and a Gibson SG bass I figured that is a good start and a short scale to play with to boot. I still need to get and amp and cabinet. On guitar I exclusively play tube only with 12" speakers. I see that bass player graviate toward solid state. With guitar usually like to play with edge of breakup, crunch or distortion, rarely do I play clean. With my tubes its easy to get saturation and over drive with amp or using pedals and stacking. I want light and small rig. I love John Entwistels tone if i sounded like that I'd behappy. Cost is not a conributing factor in this purchase but end product satisfation is. I'd not like to buy twice as I have a gear affliction of getting more but never selling and I have not much room. Currently Im have two rooms full of gear and cant hold any more!

My shortist of cabs:
Genzler Mallan 12-V
Genzler Nu Classic 112T
Genzler Nu Classic 115
Genzler Nu Classic 210
Bergantino EBXT112
Bergantino Reference II 112 - getting heavy
Bergantino Reference II 115 - getting heavier- a porker
Mesa- but they are heavier and I dont like the metal grill aesthetic, plus I dont gig so I dont need to to survive travel.

My short list of amps:
Bergantino Forte D
Genzler Kinetix 800
Genzler Magellan 800
Genzler Magellan 350
Mesa D-350
Mesa D-800+

Not famillair with Berg but was up close and personal to Mike Watt playing through a Berg 212 and Forte D, and all I can say was WOW! Sounded massive and tone for days, Holy $hit!

** Will a single cab handle the power of the 800 watt amps. Im not cranking them I dont gig.
*** Will all of any of these amps handle pedals well, (chorus, delay, overdrive and distortion)
**** Wich onnes have quiet fan? A constanly runnng or constanly running loud fand would drive me bonkers.
*****Not saying no to Mesa but not happy with what Gibson did to Randall Smith

Sorry for the long read, just trying to be thorough.

Agree with several comments saying you don't need 800W to play at home, even with your family band.

You can't go wrong with any of the amps and cabs you have listed, but the only way to know which one *YOU* prefer is to try them.

That said, if I had to choose one setup without trying, I would buy a Mesa D350 and a Subway 12 cab.
Because the D350 is fanless, and because of the "voicing" control.

{ We have no idea about what really happened in the Gibson/Randall Smith story. Maybe Gibson have been unfair, maybe not, we have no clue, we only heard one side of the story so far. }

 

[MCF]

** Will a single cab handle the power of the 800 watt amps. Im not cranking them I dont gig.
Yes. With common sense and a HPF.
*** Will all of any of these amps handle pedals well, (chorus, delay, overdrive and distortion).
They all will.
**** Wich onnes have quiet fan? A constanly runnng or constanly running loud fand would drive me bonkers.
If you can hear the fan in any of them while playing, your hearing is a lot better than most everyone I know. Good thing you aren’t considering a SVT.
*****Not saying no to Mesa but not happy with what Gibson did to Randall Smith
There are two sides to every situation. Smith made out just fine.

The Mesa Subway 115 is one of the highest regarded bass cabs ever produced. It only weighs 37.9 pounds (the Genzler 115 weighs 37 pounds) and sounds incredible.

Everything on your list is top notch. To the extent possible, try before you buy. You don’t say where you are. Sometimes planning a trip to a big city and spending a couple days shopping can help narrow down the choices.

If you want a tube preamp, also consider the Mesa WD800 or the TT800 with its two distinct channels for amazing versatility.

Download and read the manuals for the heads you’re considering.

Watt is the man in the van with a bass in his hand! Love the guy! Berg gear is awesome. But know that even if you had his exact setup, you’ll at best only get close to emulating his tone. Time for some Big Train!

 

[Deleted member 271037]

You're already gonna get recommendations for every Class D amp out there so I'll ask you this instead:

As a guitar player, do you own any 100w (or more) classic/vintage tube amps? Because if you do, you may not need to waste your money on a new amp. Some guitar tube amps can be fantastic for bass. If you're not playing very loud, even 50w might work with a good tube amp, or maybe even less. Even something like a 30w AC30 can sound amazing for bass (through a bass cab) although it won't give you enough clean headroom for most gig situations.

I bring this up because, IN MY OPINION, many classic/vintage tube GUITAR amps will totally blow away most modern Class D bass amps when it comes to tone and perhaps even more importantly dynamics and "feel". No Class D amp I've played has given me the "feel" of a good tube amp. Of course, many bass players seem to actually prefer the somewhat "stiffer" and "faster" feel of solid state (or they accept this compromise in exchange for less size/weight) but for MY taste, nothing beats an all-tube amp. Not even close.

Of course a 100w tube amp won't give you the same output volume as an 800w Class D amp. But compared with a 300(ish) watts Class D amp the perceived output volum of a good 100w tube amp might be a lot closer than you think, or even louder, depending on the amp. Of course, classic tube amps won't have the same features that a modern Class D amp can give you, like for example parametric mid-eq, built in tuners or DI outputs, if these things matter to you.

And of course you will still need a bass cab. That's the key to making classic guitar tube amps work with bass (at least without blowing the speakers, and the tone will be better too).

Not all guitar tube amps will be equally good for bass, but as long as they're powerful enough for the output volume you actually need, many classic guitar tube amp designs can be fantastic for bass. The type of amps that started appearing in the 80s with multi channels, diode clipping and higher gain preamps aren't great for bass though. Older "vintage"-type guitar tube amps are much more suitable for bass. In fact, they can be absolutely fantastic! I'm talking about amps like 4-hole Marshalls, Hiwatts, Carlsbro, Orange/Matamp, Selmer Treble'n'Bass, even some of the more powerful Fender amp heads, like maybe a Showman or a 70s Bassman 100 (or maybe even older Bassman heads if 50 watts is enough for your needs). These are just a couple of examples. There are LOTS of older guitar tube amps that will not only WORK for bass, but sound GREAT.

Many tube amps weren't even labelled as "guitar" or "bass" amps back in the 60s/70s. Some were sold as "all purpose" or PA amps. Old PA tube heads can be fantastic for bass, if they have a HiZ jack input. Old PA tube heads are typically significantly cheaper than the corresponding guitar/bass amp models, but they're usually just as good for bass. One of the best bass amps I've EVER come across was an old Simms-Watts tube PA head.

Anyway, my point is: If you're a guitar player and already own some tube amps, there's a chance one of them can be a GREAT bass amp (with a bass cab) as long as it's capable of delivering enough clean volume for your needs.

John Entwirstle's classic tone is Hiwatt btw. No other amps sound even remotely like Hiwatts. I love classic Hiwatts. They're my favorite amps (by quite some distance), but they do have a rather "baked-in" tone that means they're perhaps not the most versatile. If that's the tone you want, no other amp will provide it though, only a Hiwatt will give you THAT tone. However, the massive transformers (that are a HUGE part of the Hiwatt tone) means they're heavy, which you didn't seem to want. Hiwatts are also rather expensive.

 

[msb]

The Forte fan is not that loud , and Bergantino make beautiful things. I’m a fanboi.

However it might be overkill for just home use.

 

[HolmeBass]

What difference does the weight of the cabinets make if you are not gigging? If you are not gigging, why would you be moving them around?

 

[pepj]

What a nice problem to have.

If I were starting with a blank canvas in the U.S with little budget constraints....I'd start looking at Trickfish.

As is often the case, where you start and where you end up can be very different but it could be fun looking.

 

[MaxSpinrun]

Many good suggestions and comments. I have two amps, Mesa D800+, which is loaded with many features. Extremely versatile. I also have the Magellan 800, again full featured and very easy to dial in desired tone quickly!
Support on both brands second to none.
My cab, Genzler BA15-3 is exceptional. Best 15 currently IMHO. SUB 40 lbs. sonically just amazing.

 

[meisi]

Please be sure to convey your wishes on the Mesa Boogie 40+ wishlist thread! It would be perfect for you here.

Agree 800w is a lot a home. I did it for 2 yrs in a basement for band practice. Nearly rattled every dish off the China cabinet.

I like ~300w (depending on cab efficiency!) for home. Says how you doing to the neighbors without having them call the cops.

I have very little volume knob restraint. If it goes there I will too.

 

[Fishheadjoe]

Just buy all tube bass amp and be happy! Or, as mentioned above, you may already have your amp solution in your possession, so just look for a cab that suits your needs.
It might help us help you if you gave us an idea of what amps you currently own, then we can make cab suggestions.
Fishheadjoe

 

[bikeplate]

Anything Bergantino. You're welcome