Double Bass Upton Bass

[BPeder]

Someone, somewhere, mentioned recently that the long wait for an Upton gave one plenty of time to second guess their purchase. I would like to thank all the folks who have written so engagingly in this thread and elsewhere, about their experience with the actual basses from Upton themselves–whether that experience was good or bad. That is after all, the first purpose of this thread. Eric Swanson especially has taken a lot of time and energy to write in an evenly balanced way, and that is exactly what someone like me and more importantly, CMoon1 who I presume has not made his decision yet, wants/needs to hear. Eric, I can only hope that the US Uptons will have cleaner technique than you have observed in their initial build ups now that the luthiers have complete control of the entire process. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

[chuck1073]

I'm actualy stopping by the workshop on Saturday morning.
I'll let you know how the new instruments look.
Talked to Gary for awhile yesterday. To say these guys are pumped about the new basses would be a massive understatement.

 

[BPeder]

Chuck, you da man! Ask 'em if you can see my bass, the hybrid that's shipping to Plymouth, MN, (after you look at your own that is), and then get back to me. I want to be sure they glued the fingerboard on right side up! Thanks.

 

[chuck1073]

Will do. It's not like it's a long trip though. If the weather's nice I'll probably ride my bike.

 

[Dbassmon]

1) My opinion of their basses (as an owner) is that it something that is most useful when amplified and plucked. In other words, my bass really doesn't speak clearly/loudly enough for orchestral work, but is fine with a pickup/amp. The 42" string length makes my bass just a tad stiffer under the stick than other basses that are out there, but provides a nice punch with pizz. To me, Upton's products seem largely targeted toward a clientèle that is augmenting their sound with amplification.

I notice that their clients and staff seem weighted toward the pizz scenes...jazz, rockabilly, etc. I haven't yet heard about a lot of people playing their basses in orchestras or solo arco recitals. Perhaps I just haven't been at TB long enough...I am a newbie here. Educate me, folks!

The instruments I have seen and played (in their shop) are consistent in sound and tone, a bit muted, generally well setup, and a bit roughly made, compared to instruments at higher price points.

2) My opinion/experience of their service is that they try extremely hard and generally do very well. Overall the value I have received is good, per dollar.

This is clearly not a firm that suffers from false modesty or shyness. Marketing can happen lots of ways...they fearlessly use many traditional methods.

They are not marketing their basses by providing stunningly well made basses at unrealistically low prices, if that is what someone wants/expects.

Quality is subjective and is part of the dynamic with service and price...these things really can't be separated. Their physical instruments may not match some others in finesse, but their other more intangible values are very strong...dedication, vision, business savvy, enthusiasm, courage, etc.

I think of "quality" similarly to the way that Aristotle talks about "virtue"...it needs to be high enough to do the job for which it is intended.

My question for CMoon1 should perhaps be, "For what are you planning to use this bass?"

My opinion and experience with Upton Hybrid is different than Erics.

My bass is just a year old. It is very loud, both pizz and arco. My bass is a little stiff too but keep in mind, basses open up after a few years of playing and start to get really good after 20 years or so.... so I am told.
My arco sound is full and beautiful. It was very bright when I first got it but it sounds smoother all the time. I think you can absolutely use this bass in an orchestra if your bass sounds like mine does.

I think you will be happy when you get your bass, you will be happier the longer you own it.

 

[Eric Swanson]

Dbassmon, thanks for the contrasting post. Well put and fairly said!

For me, one thought is that a person's perspective has much to do with context, music played, and background. I am coming from an arco perspective, comparing my bass to instruments I have played at music school, in orchestras, or those owned by my former teachers. These were instruments valued for their ability to produce clear, high volume - acoustically.

Hope that this clarifies my skewed vision, idiosyncratic perspective, and imperfect knowledge! Again, my question to CMoon1 is, "For what would you be using your bass?"

 

[Dbassmon]

To clarify my post further;
I consider my Upton bass not in the same class as the 200 year old instruments, hand carved by master luthiers. My teacher has such an instrument and Eric is absolutely correct, there is no comparison. Nor should there be.
What I would say is this, this is a brand new bass, it plays well, it sounds very good, it can be played in multiple situations, depending on setup, strings, style etc.
I use the comparison of wine. It's almost Thanksgiving and the Beaujolais Nouveau is about to come out. It's nice wine, not complex but very enjoyable, grape juice with a bang, if you will. It can not be compared to a great vintage that has matured to perfection. The Beaujolais Nouveau as sells for $15 a bottle and a fine vintage.... the sky is the limit.
It think this parallels my point about my bass. It makes a great sound, it plays well, it's going to sound a lot better as time goes on, it was really inexpensive (as basses go) When I state it can be used in an orchestra setting I mean, local orchestra. If you play well enough to join the Boston Symphony you probably own, or will own, a bass worth huge bucks.
Good luck Eric, I hope you end up with one those truly great instruments.

 

[D McCartney]

So....you get what you pay for?

 

[TimoMetzemakers]

The Beaujolais Nouveau as sells for $15 a bottle

What? In France, beaujolais nouveau used to sell for $2-$3 a bottle. However, the marketing boys have been working hard, and $5 price tags aren't uncommon these days, which is a lot of money for some glorified grape juice. For $5, I can get a nice premières-côtes-de-bordeaux which isn't a really great vintage---it's just a humble, but good wine.

So... I guess my point is that your comparison isn't very flattering for Upton. Beaujolais nouveau is 10% wine, 90% marketing hype IMHO. Surely the same isn't true for Upton?

 

[drurb]

Of course, it is unfair to compare the Upton Professor to vintage and pricey master-crafted basses. I, too, come from a solid arco background that began about 35 years ago. It included a stint in a professional symphony orchestra. These days I play jazz pizz. Let's restrict the comparison to carved basses costing $10,000 or less.

The Upton Professor I played back in April was strung with Spirocores. It was a cannon! It spoke quite loudly and projected well with a full-blooming tone. It was not muted at all.

My comparison was the bass I currently have. It is a fully carved Romanian roundback. It is a bass that was made in the same shop or shops as the "Calin Wulturs" but was specially hand picked for its outstanding sonic and build qualities. In my opinion, my own bass sounds quite a bit better than the "European" Upton hybrid did (and it should!) but the Professor beat it by a substantial margin. I did not and do not "need" a new bass. Up until the point I played the Professor, the only basses I played that I found more desirable than my own were in the $15-20k range and up. I am not in a position, nor does it make sense for me, to drop that kind of cash on a bass. Given what I heard (and felt), I chose to order a Professor on the spot. Then I opted to wait for a USA-made one.

So, even given the adjustment in context, it would seem that my experience also differs from Eric S's. I agree with him that there are so many factors that could be responsible, e.g., different basses, different strings, etc. One factor that Eric and I seem to share is a solid background of playing DB over many years.

 

[Eric Swanson]

+1

Okay, lets compare the Professor to other options less than $10K. I like it!

If we can compare strings with such avidity, why not instruments. We need a graph

Thanks to all for such thoughtful posts...

 

[Fuzzball59]

...contention and dissonance has faded and productive counterpoint has emerged. Gentlemen, nice work on the reformation of this thread.

 

[Sam Reese]

I have a blond swing bass that I got a couple months ago from Upton. It's plywood with Innovation strings. For the first time in my life I have a bass that is set up properly and it is saving my hands and arms from further damage from my inferior bass. I will be forever grateful of just being able to play an upright that is set up correctly.
Jam On

 

[drurb]

I am also interested in the lower-priced instruments on the kensmithbasses.com site. Anyone with experience with these instruments?

Gosh, I hope no one aims a flame-thrower at me. I will hope for civility. As I mentioned, my current bass is actually a rather outstanding exemplar of the same "family" of lower-priced European basses on Ken Smith's site. I am VERY happy with this instrument. I would be fine playing it for the rest of my life. Really. It was my considered opinion, however, that the European Professor was substantially better. That being the case, I was willing to order one. If it were $10,000, I would not have done that.

No, I cannot rule out the possibility that the basses of the same family on Ken Smith's site are even better than mine. I have not played them. All I know is that mine is among the better (among the best?) of what those shops turn out. I also have not played a USA-made Professor as none exists. I am only relating my own experience and opinions.

 

[Mr.Phil]

This is all so good! Great points all around about comparing apples to oranges. Okay, lets compare the Professor to other options less than $10K. I like it!

I am curious about the hybrid La Scala or carved version by aesbass.com I am also interested in the lower-priced instruments on the kensmithbasses.com site. Anyone with experience with these instruments?

If we can compare strings with such avidity, why not instruments. We need a graph

Thanks to all for such thoughtful posts...

I'm not sure if Ken Smith does setup on the uprights, but at his price point, they seem like quite a deal. They have an attractive look, nice grain, etc. You may have to figure some extra cash into that price in order have the bass but setup, but thats not a bad thing. Again, these basses may not be in the same category as some older master crafted basses, but I seriously doubt that the maker of Ken Smith basses would attach his name to something that would disappoint.
The Upton bass comes fully setup setup and from what I've read that is what they have a reputation for. Another plus is that you can customize what you want, right down to the finish. They also appear to be an excellent value, the only downside is, like all custom jobs, you have to wait for the order to be completed.
I think both basses are good values, and if you can try them both out. You may also want to give each shop a call and talk things over.

 

[Bass]

...I am VERY happy with this instrument....

But how does your instrument feel about wearing its' shoulder in a sling?

And where did Cmoon1 go anyhow?

I'm pretty happy with my Upton Laminate Hawkes. They spent a fair but of time talking with me to figure out how I planned to play it, then set it up accordingly. It took about the same length of time to get to my doorstep as they predicted. And I have no doubt the bass will serve me well for many years.

That's pretty good value, I think.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

This is a good, informative and comparative thread. I have nothing to add other than to point out something regarding the set-up of a bass from Upton or any other source when purchased long-distance and shipped.
When I purchased my bass from Upton about a year ago, I discussed with Jack my preferences as far as string height, how I hoped the bass would sound and string choice.
After living with the bass, I have fine tuned the notches in the nut, raised and lowered the strings and had it to my local luthier for a soundpost adjustment and other little fine tunings. Anyone purchasing a bass long-distance should still budget in a trip to a local luthier for final set up. Although Upton does a fine job, I don't think it is possible for any luthier to get a perfect idea of a player's preferences by phone or email. As I have not played any basses offered by Ken Smith, AES or any others possibly mentioned I can't make any comparison regarding their setups. However, any of their basses could benefit from adjustment to better fit a particular player's needs.

 

[Eric Swanson]

On the apples and oranges comparison thing I completely agree with Dbassmon and Drurb. But, then again, here's another thought.

Perhaps we could benefit by comparing our modest basses to these great, fabulously expensive instruments. After all, aren't they our ideal?

As I think about it more, I start to think that truly great basses might be our gold standard, so to speak. I guess the noodling thought I am half-forming is the idea that we might work backwards from those instruments, with them as "10".

Even better, separate the bass' evaluation into pizz and arco grades. Separate this from the setup. Give fit and finish a grade. Perhaps also give the service received a rating. We could also grade overall perceived value/satisfaction, assessing the total dynamic of quality, service, and price.

 

[drurb]

I like the idea of rating things like setup, etc. As to quality, please excuse the geek-talk but the distribution for carved basses is extremely skewed. That is, if we reserve "10" for the finest carved basses, everything else would have to be a 1 or a 2. It's like rating annual incomes (another example of a skewed distribution) where we have to include the likes of Bill Gates. We'll need a log-based rating system. Yes, I am half-kidding here.

 

[drurb]

But how does your instrument feel about wearing its' shoulder in a sling?

Yeah, the bib slipped when I moved the bass to take the other pictures. I keep that thing on to prevent the otherwise inevitable belt-buckle scratches.