Using Subtractive EQ On Gigs - Anyone Else Trying This?

[Jim Carr]

I may sound silly, but I cut somethings, and boost others, as needed—nutty, huh?

 

[Joebone]

This was something I decided to start using on gigs about eight months ago. The basic idea is that, if you want more bass, rather than boosting the low end you actually cut back on the high end (and vice versa etc) so that you're still left with what you want. I've found that the signal I'm getting is way more manageable, I can get more volume out of my amp because the signal isn't as hot, I'm never really in danger of clipping or peaking and I think it sounds nicer. There's still plenty of strong, solid low end but it doesn't sound as wooly and undefined as just cranking the low end. Also, if I have to play at louder volumes I find that the low end isn't as overwhelming when I use this EQ technique.

I got the idea from a producer friend of mine who uses this technique when he works on mixes in his studio and I just wondered if anyone else had tried it? I've been using it for a while now and the results have been great for me!

Try it and let me know what you think!

Been doing this ever since taking bass up as a real hobby, 8-9 years ago. Less is more, particularly with certain active basses - G&L L-2000 and Sadowsky among them. Often finding my tone on subtractive basis, then just pushing the master volume.

 

[JimmyM]

Isn't this how the passive EQ in all-tube amps used to work ? At least this is how I work with with my Traynor YBA200-II: bass, mid, treble fully cranked, then blend away what I do not want. In the end readjust gain and master with new EQ setting.

Fender passive tone stacks boost treble and bass but only cut mids.

 

[SirMjac28]

Well, it's proper technique for PA, but I ain't running a PA I used to be into that, but then Roger Baer said to me, "If you're getting the sound you want, what difference does it make where the knobs are?" He was right. So I don't sweat it anymore. Where the knobs end up is all good as long as I get my sound.

+1 I tried it also it seemed to be more work for me. I like my highs at a certain level when I cut them for more bass the overall sound wasn't right but I'm glad this method works for others good poet.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

Depends on if you have active or passive tone controls.

Here's another trick-
Use a full parametric EQ for correcting annoyances or defects like feedback, resonances, ringing, howls, boom, etc.
Use graphic EQ for tone shaping.

 

[Doner Designs]

This helps explain the utility and popularity of the Markbass VLE and VPF controls.

 

[Growlmonkee]

For me this starts with which bass I'm playing, but, I guess for no reason, I like to start with everything at 12 o'clock, and most times, during sound check, I need small cuts in low mids, or in high mids, and possibly a cut in bass, depending on the room, and which bass I'm playing. On my Eden head the "enhance" knob gets the most movement, it boosts lows, cuts low mids, boosts high mids (that's mainly what it does), and it's easy to dial in with, the rest of my eq stays fairly close to 12 o'clock, but then the Eden sound is quite flavored IMO, I like it, but if you don't there isn't much getting around it. Answers to this depend heavily on your rig, I think.

 

[TheBass]

Fender passive tone stacks boost treble and bass but only cut mids.

Just curious: How is it possible to boost without resonance or active amplification ?

 

[TripleDouble]

If you cut frequencies to attain a flat response while using flatwounds, well, you'll see. Ommmmmmmmm.

 

[Kmonk]

It's basic sound engineering 101. Use the EQ to cut frequencies first, rather than boosting. Unfortunately, most people use the EQ just for boost when if they cut some frequencies they would find that their sound improves without becoming too loud.

 

[matthewbrown]

I find that by cutting the low end and raising the volume, I get a less rumbly, more defined sound that still has lots of punch. I may bump up the low mids, but mainly use a mid-notch as defined by GK or Carvin -- they know more about such things than I do! As for the high end, I gauge the right amount by how much the drummer is using his cymbals.

 

[bassfacer22]

I'll leave you with this, I was one of those crazy moving the knobs of my amp every song to try to get a good sound out of the amp and bass..

then I bought a new expensive bass.. and I didn't have to EQ anything anymore..

so the answer to the EQ situation is buy a bass that you don't have to EQ from the beginning.. or atleast a bass that you only need minimum EQ to get that sound you are looking for..

I've had a ton of basses that I've never been happy with and trying to fix this and that.. and then I finally bought one that just sounded good from the beginning.. solved..

really think about it.

 

[JimmyM]

Just curious: How is it possible to boost without resonance or active amplification ?

Ask Fender I'm clueless on that, but that's how the Fender tone stack works.

 

[Downunderwonder]

Whayever works for you bud.

Lots of amps have 3 band eq which is nominally flat at 2 10 2.

Trace amps have eq level control on the output and manual tells me to cut and boost to maintain overall gain at unity.

Etc..

 

[vin*tone]

Also... It sounds counter-intuitive but a high pass filter can be great to get more usable low end. Cutting the boom below 40z can allow you to boost the bass without it getting out of control. Not so easy for ERB players.

 

[agedhorse]

There is nothing at all wrong with boosting an eq band PROVIDED your gear is designed with realistic headroom. Without reasonable headroom as part of the amp's design, boosting can cause unintended clipping of the following stages (or even the eq section itself). I acknowledge that there are some amps that do not fall into this category. Our GB amps (as a specific example) include post-eq clipping detection which lights the input clip LED.

Same applies to PA. The general rule of thumb with graphic eq's is that the average boost + cut should roughly end up around 0dB which serves to retain ROUGHLY unity gain structure. Of course this is not strictly true as gain structure is also a function of frequency. (Ie you can clip in only one area while having ideal gain structure in other areas).

Mixing console eq (pro pieces anyway) also monitor the eq section for clipping (and level) via the input metering.

It's all about how reasonable the eq boost is versus how reasonable the amp's headroom is. It's not rocket science (with pro gear anyway)

 

[12bass]

Subtractive EQ (removing the "offending" frequencies) generally sounds more natural than boosting the "nice" frequencies. In practice, I generally employ subtractive EQ, but on occasion will add a little EQ here or there to taste. When mixing a recording, sometimes I will boost an instrument slightly at a certain frequency where it "speaks", whilst simultaneously cutting others in that area; this is a form of 'frequency slotting'.

 

[StyleOverShow]

As a caveat, a lot of new bassists cut the mids because it provides a more punchy tone. Mids are needed in a band setting. Although mid scooping works when playing alone.

I learn tunes with a mid scooped settings, easy to distinguish pitches.

But live I need big bass ambiance too, so I am closer to the Jimmy school of whatever road that leads you the sound you find agreeable.

I think my MarkBass II is still around because its VLE VLP capabilities.

 

[gypsyfelon]

This helps explain the utility and popularity of the Markbass VLE and VPF controls.

Agreed. Very useful controls

 

[Doner Designs]

Interesting to consider that a passive tone stack, if it is truly passive, is a cut-only control (I think) and lots of people love them. The cut-only nature probably makes them more idiot proof than active circuits which sort of encourage you to boost...because you can.