Double Bass Velvet strings megathread part III

[DrBassie]

JAS,
I'm using the Anima G with Spiro mittels, and they match up great.

That sounds like a match made in hell but, hey, it works for you! I couldn't imagine what that would play like on my bass.

 

[JAS]

When I had the Spiro Weichs with a Blues G: The gague matched up perfectly, the tension was nice for medium tempo stuff, ballads, and it opened up the sound of my bass a bit but...the timbre of the Blues was different from the Spiros especially through a pickup and seemed to be missing the same tonal center/punch the weichs have -especially at faster tempos and may work as a full set, but felt a bit mismatched tonally sometimes. That being said, I still miss the feel sometimes. Im wondering how different an Anima G would be. Is the tension similar to Blues? I wouldnt mind if it was slightly higher. The gague of the Blues G was perfect, so if the Anima G is much bigger it might not work for me.

The Evah Weich G I have on is a great match with the Spiro Weichs. Tension is great, gague is great sound is very good. Sometimes I just find myself missing that fun feeling of that Blues G if that makes any sense.

 

[RShew]

I am always a little confused at the difference between having a G and D gut w/spiros on the bottom (which seems widely accepted) and a G and D Anima w/spiros on the bottom (which seems crazy to many). What are the differences? IMO, the Animas might match up just as well as guts or even better. They have a little more tension than gut and also have a little more "metallic" sound.

I use Anima's and guts in combination with steels all the time and love the results.

Thoughts and experiences?

 

[Jeremy Allen]

I am always a little confused at the difference between having a G and D gut w/spiros on the bottom (which seems widely accepted) and a G and D Anima w/spiros on the bottom (which seems crazy to many). What are the differences? IMO, the Animas might match up just as well as guts or even better. They have a little more tension than gut and also have a little more "metallic" sound.

I use Anima's and guts in combination with steels all the time and love the results.

Thoughts and experiences?

I'm sure everyone's experiences are different, but for me, the Anima G and D do not behave in the same way as a gut G and D when paired with spirocores (or other steel strings). I just had Spiro mittels on the bottom and Animas on the top two weeks ago, and the difference in power/response between the two sides was comical. I couldn't get the action high enough to make the Animas work without making the Spiros unplayable.

I have always been very surprised when doing the same thing with plain guts in place of the Animas to note how powerful the gut strings are in comparison to the steel. In a practice room, it may seem like the steel overpowers the gut, but as soon as I get in a live situation the opposite is true.

I think all of the velvet sets are amazing when used as a set. I think Animas on the E and A would make for a pretty nice complement to plain gut on the top.

But again...having owned many basses and having tried almost every kind of string on most of them rollno I can say that it is a wonderful thing to have so many different kinds of strings in the world; the reaction of a particular bass to a particular string can vary widely (and wildly). Just gotta match the string to the bass!

I've got it narrowed down to a great combination on my current axe: Flexocor G, EP D, and Spiro mittel A and E. This particular bass did not like Animas one bit, unfortunately.

 

[fred pratt]

Ugh. I don't know what to do. I took up the bow about three months ago. I'm getting better at it but I still pretty much suck. It doesn't just sound like a hyena in heat. Sometimes it sounds like a bear and hyena trying to copulate.

I love the Velvet Blues. I have a regular jazz gig and I love their pizzicato sound and feel. Before I started bowing I was so content I was feeling like I might never need to read another post about strings.

I wanted to stick with the Blues with the bow since I love them so much. Sometimes it's really hard and other times I can almost get a passable sound out of them, although it's much more trebly and nasal than the sound of the Evah Pirazzis at my teacher's studio.

But yesterday it was terrible. I was practicing with the bow and the sound was so grating it was as though the strings were deliberately mocking my poor technique. I had a few minutes and an old set of Dominants in my drawer, so I made an impulsive switch, though I haven't gotten to playing the Dominants yet.

What am I gonna do? People say wildly different things about Velvets, from "You don't want to be anywhere near Velvet strings when you have a bow in your hand," to "Velvet Blues bow just fine when you have the right rosin," to "Blues are bad but Animas are better."

I also have a beat-to-hell set of Animas in my drawer. Is it possible they're a little more bow friendly? Would Kolstein soft rosin sound better with the Blues than Carrlson does, and would that and lots of practice solve my problems? I also happen to have an unopened set of Evah Weichs in my drawer but I'm not a fan of Evah regulars --too dark and too much tension.

Any advice? Do I have to spend weeks or months trying everything before I possibly settle on something?

 

[JAS]

The Blues are difficult to bow. An advanced or intermediate player can get a usable arco sound from them and would only be used very minimally as an arco string. If you like the Blues pizz, Id try the Animas which are not a true arco string, but easier to bow than the Blues are. If you are doing a lot of bowing, Id go with a different setup. The Blues are a pizz string that are difficult to bow. The Compas 180s or the Compas 180 Suite might be something worth trying. I believe the Suits have a lighter tension than most synthetic or steel strings, a similar gague to the Blues and bow very well.

 

[donn]

Any advice? Do I have to spend weeks or months trying everything before I possibly settle on something?

Only months? Read this forum, and weep.

One reason is that our experiences don't translate. A couple pages back, I commented that in my inept hands, Blues seemed to bow OK. I just went and checked, in case I was possibly mistaken about this as I don't actually use the bow often, and if you were here to hear it, you might have said "yes! that's what I'm talking about! those hyenas, bears, etc., they're driving me insane!" Or, "Sure, that's fine, but now play a passage that goes all over the place at 100 times the tempo!"

I'm surprised you didn't try the rosin months ago, but for the record I'm using Carlsson. (Old stuff, possibly 20 years, don't know if it changes over time. With a French style bow, if it matters.) The sound I get seems a little dry and thin compared to my old Spirocores, and in a way I think it may be just because that's the difference in sound overall between the two strings - Spirocores have a lot more harmonics, so they sound more full under the bow.

 

[fred pratt]

I'm sorry for the public panic attack.

What I need to do is to practice and work on my bow technique. (I also ordered a cake of Kolstein soft to see what effect that might have.) I'm still a Newbie at this. My goal is not to become a champion arco player --I just want to be a better all-around player and I want to play jazz. I don't want my strings to make it harder for me to learn, but I'm realizing that it's about me, not about the strings.

I played around with the Dominants last night, and while the arco sound I got out of them had a slightly more pleasing low midrange/bass sound and less of the high midrange /treble sound I get with the Blues, it's not like the Dominants are going to solve all my problems. I still struggled to get a decent sound. And I while the Dominants sound nice for pizzicato, I way prefer the sound and feel of the Blues.

I'm keeping Animas in mind for when I wear out my present set of Blues. Maybe by that time my technique will have evolved to the point where the difference will be noticeable.

Thanks for your help. Some of you probably already know about this thread in the Bows and Rosin section. It's a nice discussion. http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f2/velvet-garbo-bow-769124/

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

I am always a little confused at the difference between having a G and D gut w/spiros on the bottom (which seems widely accepted) and a G and D Anima w/spiros on the bottom (which seems crazy to many). What are the differences? IMO, the Animas might match up just as well as guts or even better. They have a little more tension than gut and also have a little more "metallic" sound.

I use Anima's and guts in combination with steels all the time and love the results.

Thoughts and experiences?

It says on Velvet's website not to do this because of the difference in tension which will unbalance the bass.



What is the principle difference with Velvet strings?

We have defined the tension level of all Velvet strings considerably lower than other manufacturers. The choice of materials and design of the strings permit this luxury without loss of definition or strength to the contrary:
the lower tension relieves your instrument, giving it back its original spatial dimension, intensifying the sound radiation and enlarging the sound volume.






It is possible to mix Velvet strings with other strings?

Mixing our strings with those of other manufacturers should not be considered, since our principle of balance would not be achieved and the benefits as described previously would not come into effect.

 

[fred pratt]

Mixing our strings with those of other manufacturers should not be considered, since our principle of balance would not be achieved and the benefits as described previously would not come into effect.

Not only shouldn't you do it, you shouldn't even consider it.

 

[Jim Dombrowski]

"the lower tension relieves your instrument, giving it back its original spatial dimension, intensifying the sound radiation and enlarging the sound volume"

They forgot to add "YMMV"

 

[RShew]

I do it (mix up sets). I know many other who do it too. It seems to work for some and not others. I did not have success mixing Anima's and mittels but did have good results with weichs. I also have good results with (dare I say) helicore hybrids (ala Grenadier a few years ago). I think the magic of Velvets as a set is not present when you break them up BUT they still sound great, amplify well, and have the vibe I like. I still go back to my oliv's (D and G) often though. My gripe with oliv's is that they don't sound as good amplified as the Animas do (on my bass through my various rigs).

I think if you are curious, you should try and see what happens. Might not work on your bass...but then again...it might!

 

[Nuno A.]

In my opinion, i dont see any problem to mix Velvet with strings that have similar tensions, a couple kgs less or more shouldnt hurt much the equation, the problem in my opinion is if you will mix velvets with lets say , high tension strings, that will choke the Velvets. But at the end of the day, each bass is different and so, if it works for you, who cares...


Nuno

 

[Jake deVilliers]

Not only shouldn't you do it, you shouldn't even consider it.

"Don't touch it, don't even look at it!"

 

[Marcus Johnson]

Don't even play it. Just run away.

 

[Mark Perna]

I've heard they send men out to get you if your try it. I read it on Facebook.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

I'm sure everyone's experiences are different, but for me, the Anima G and D do not behave in the same way as a gut G and D when paired with spirocores (or other steel strings). I just had Spiro mittels on the bottom and Animas on the top two weeks ago, and the difference in power/response between the two sides was comical. I couldn't get the action high enough to make the Animas work without making the Spiros unplayable.
.

Of course you can try what you like - but these are expensive strings to waste and I just thought the advice on the Velvet Website explained Jeremy's experience?

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

On another topic, I am having fun with the Garbos with a Gut G set, I bought recently!

The gut string looks like it should be out of place and work differently - but it fits perfectly with the other strings and they sound like a homogenous unit.

I love the sound and am glad I made the change.

 

[engedi1]

OK. I am now about 2 weeks , several rehearsal, and one gig into my Compas 180 experiment. I still feel a full review is premature, as they are still stretching! They will be about a quarter tone flat each day when I get to practicing. The bowed sound is starting to settle down, and is less scratching. It is a huge, inspiring, complex bowed sound. The arco response reminds me of BelCantos', but with more charachter to the tone if that makes any sense. The E string does NOT respond as well above B. However, this has improved almost every day as these strings stretch, and I imaging that will still improve.
I love the pizz tone, which has just a bit of thump to it. Great growl and sustain on the E and A string, almost spiro like. The D and G, G in particular are a tad thumpier than I was expecting, but I am adjusting to this sound.
Putting these strings on raised my action by a few millimeters almost instantly. My G string is at about 9-10 millimeters, which is a little higher than I would like. I may have to get my bridge cut down to get to the sweet spot. The volume is impressive though. As loud or louder than the spiros. Spiros have a more in your face tone, and cut more, but for having such a warm sound, these strings really project!
What I love most about these strings is the feel. They are softer than Obligatos by quite a bit, but they have NO roll under the right hand, and I play with a hard touch! I love the softer feel, which helps with fatigue on the 4 hour gigs.
More thought to come after another 3 week, and several more gigs...

 

[fred pratt]

Just a quick comment...I'm no genius with the bow, and I bow exclusively for practice., but switching from pops to kolstein soft rosin was a night and day difference. With a rosin that matches up, the blues aren't that bad at all.

Thanks for this comment, Philip, and you too, donn, for directing my attention to rosin. I switched to Kolstein Soft, and either I've gotten a lot better in just the course of a week or the rosin makes a huge difference. I'm actually digging how the Blues sound now.