Verellen Kalaloch (speaker cable) problem (gets hot !!)

[Godcreep]

On topic concerning the speakercables: I thought those (Klotz SC3PP01SW jack 2p - jack 2p 1 meter speakerkabel kopen?) were really decent. Apparently not. The guy in my local music shop is recommending me those:



Any thoughts ?

 

[Godcreep]

Just the tip of my metal bits touched my wife's and now we have two kids!

Tel me about it... I have 4 kids! (3 daughters (oldest daughter is 17 and twin girls) and 1 son).
I do not even dare look at my 'Speakercable' anymore...

 

[tom-g]

I wonder if they escape regulation under a small quantity, prototype level clause, if exists. It does exist (or did) in the US for laboratory instrumentation. The exclusion did not release the manufacturer from any liability, other than regulatory fines and stop sales orders. Or that amp company might just have hopes of not getting caught.

In Germany that amp would not have passed customs. They check if electronic equipment meets safety regulations. Better to check beforehand when importing into Germany if that equipment can legally be imported. You‘d be out of a very expensive piece of equipment (at your cost).

 

[anderbass]

One of these little toggle switch safety covers co

As far as I can see, not every Kalaloch has that Voltage switch. Dunno why mine has one though, maybe it's also because it's one of the earlier versions, who knows.

Voltage select switches are handy for bands that tour different countries.

It'd be pretty easy to install one of these toggle switch safety covers on your switch:

 

[redstrand]

The cable is the culprit, the whole 1/4” jack can’t handle this is nonsense. If the solder was loose then the resistance had to be massive which in turn caused the heating and failure. I bought a divine noise cabinet cable and never experienced this, from 280w to 1000w it hasn’t flinched. Spend a couple extra bucks for the piece of mind.

 

[agedhorse]

A poor quality solder joint absolutely can be responsible for this problem.

 

[Rick James]

A poor quality solder joint absolutely can be responsible for this problem.

+1. The chances of the plug heating enough to melt the solder is nil, with the melting point of electrical solder being around 365F the wire insulation would have melted back at least an inch, probably causing the conductors to short out. The picture shows a typical cold solder joint, where the solder wasn't heated enough to cause it to flow when the cable was assembled. The poor contact between the conductor and the plug would have caused the heating, maybe to as much as 140F but a long way from 365F.

 

[mmbongo]

This thread should be required reading for those who refuse to use Speakon cables.

 

[BassmanPaul]

Just the tip of my metal bits touched my wife's and now we have two kids!

It happened twice to us too. Then my wife dragged me to the vet and had me neutered! Problem solved!

 

[arbitrary]

Easiest way to install speakons on this amp is drop it from a tall building.

I didn't even have to go that far. When verellen shipped mine to me it arrived in about 10 pieces because he forgot to screw the amp into the headshell. Nothing like opening a box and finding it in 10 pieces.

 

[gitfiddl]

This thread should be required reading for those who refuse to use Speakon cables.

While there is some validity to the opinion that "1/4" jacks and plugs worked for decades, so why bother?", I have installed Speakons on all my speaker cabinets and amps where possible. In the the situations where modifying an amp to install them wasn't feasible (like my SWR SM-400), I put a patchbay in the back of the rack and ran a cable from the jacks on the amp to the Speakon jacks in the patchbay. Relatively cheap insurance.

 

[BassmanPaul]

My take from this whole thread is disappointment with Verellen as a company. I had thought he did quality work but apparently not. That voltage selector alone should never have been placed on the back panel. If that is the only way that the modules allow a voltage change it should have been at least positioned on top of the chassis behind the back panel so that it is more difficult to get to.

 

[BassmanPaul]

While there is some validity to the opinion that "1/4" jacks and plugs worked for decades, so why bother?”..........

Yes they did but as amplifier power increased they became less and less able to carry the increased current demands. After all they were originally developed for telephone switch boards working at 48V with a current of a couple hundred milliamps.

 

[BassmanPaul]

It's pretty clear that this is a really high end, expensive handmade amp, so there's not much bad to be said about that.

But you just wonder if the amp builder knows enough about making things other than tube amps. I'm sure the tube preamp side is impeccable. Turret boards, chassis mounted sockets and pots, etc., this stuff looks pristine. But the backside, w/ the 1/4" jack, the non-recessed voltage switch, etc. That is worrying.

I mean, it can run in bridged mode, sending 1400 watts through a 1/4"? I can defend a lot of things, but that? Yeah, no.

I’m sorry but I don’t see the construction as high end. To my eye it’s very messy. That big orange drop cap going from the tag board to a pot is going to break it’s leads eventually. It should have been mounted on the tag board where it’s weight could be supported.

 

[BassmanPaul]

+1. The chances of the plug heating enough to melt the solder is nil,

Solder is not the only thing that can melt. I have had to replace output jacks where the plastic housing has melted due to the heat in the small contact area of the connections.

 

[gitfiddl]

Yes they did but as amplifier power increased they became less and less able to carry the increased current demands. After all they were originally developed for telephone switch boards working at 48V with a current of a couple hundred milliamps.

I agree wholeheartedly! My point was how long did it take Ampeg to put Speakons on the 300 watt SVT? How many heavy hitting PA amps were still using 1/4" outputs until the turn of the century? I gigged the bejeezus out of a rackful of Peavey CS800 amps driving the PA thru 1/4" cables back in the 80's and 90's and never had any issues.

But the real reason 1/4" jacks are still being commonly used is that guitarists and drummers can't figure out how to use a Speakon!

 

[BassmanPaul]

The cable is the culprit, the whole 1/4” jack can’t handle this is nonsense. If the solder was loose then the resistance had to be massive which in turn caused the heating and failure. I bought a divine noise cabinet cable and never experienced this, from 280w to 1000w it hasn’t flinched. Spend a couple extra bucks for the piece of mind.

I stopped using phone plugs years ago and replaced most of my speaker cable ends with SpeakOns. I still have a few phone cables for my guitar amps but that’s the only place I’ll use them.

 

[Godcreep]

Update.... !
Well... I'm pretty sure those speakercables (Klotz) are guilty as hell ! I had a rehearsal today and played with my Ampeg SVT 3 Pro head - 810 Ampeg Heritage cab and tried the same speakercable that got so hot a week ago. After like only 5 minutes, those jacks were hot as hell. I then used another (cheaper) speakercable from one of my bandmates and gone was the problem.. So it's very likely my Verellen amp had nothing to do with the heating problem to begin with. I still have to try my Verellen amp with another speakercable though, but I'm 95 % confident the problem will be gone.

 

[BassmanPaul]

Just make sure you don’t use a screened cable, like an instrument cable, to connect to your cabinet.

 

[agedhorse]

+1. The chances of the plug heating enough to melt the solder is nil, with the melting point of electrical solder being around 365F the wire insulation would have melted back at least an inch, probably causing the conductors to short out. The picture shows a typical cold solder joint, where the solder wasn't heated enough to cause it to flow when the cable was assembled. The poor contact between the conductor and the plug would have caused the heating, maybe to as much as 140F but a long way from 365F.

I disagree. First of all, the insulation is overheated but a poor quality solder joint (cold or otherwise) that has say 2 ohms of resistance will dissipate maybe 200 watts peak (with a 10 amp RMS output current, representative of 400 watt @ 4 ohm rated amp) and when you derate to even 1/4 rated power the loss will be 50 watts in that joint. Most soldering irons are not even 50 watts.

We have to do thermal testing on some types of solder joints used in high current applications, usually as part of an agency approval process. It's absolutely a real problem if the quality of the joint is not acceptable.