Versatone pan o flex copies.... Are they there?

[Kirk Bryant]

 

[wagdog]

Does anyone have a picture of Jack with his Versatone? I can't say I've ever seen a picture of him with it.

 

[beans-on-toast]

Pics of Jack's amp: Jack Casady's Versatone | Facebook

He used a Versatone Model 133, see the attached schematic.

 

[scars]

 

[Robal]

To be clear, the Versatone bass version was a single channel amp that used the same chassis as the two channel accordian/guitar version, but the face plate covered up the unused control pot holes. (Cost savings, no doubt.) The bass version's circuitry deletes the reverb and trem also, so the circuitry inside looks quite a bit different (much simpler). Both bass and guitar versions used the same Utah 12" speaker and same interior ported cabinet. There is also a bass version that has a taller cabinet with more interior volume. These amps were released under various brand names, including Versatone, Audio Guild, Lyrc, Universal, Titano, and Bonham. Here's the key point for bass players: The bass amp sounds quite different (better in my view) than the guitar amp when used for bass, particularly when pushed into its glorious overdrive sound. Playing bass through the guitar amp does not get you the sound of the Versatone bass amp. For that reason I hope folks don't buy the much more plentiful guitar amps, particularly the single Output Transformer version, and think they are going to hear what the Versatone bass amp sounds like. Not the same animal.

 

[Bruce Sahroian]

To be clear, the Versatone bass version was a single channel amp that used the same chassis as the two channel accordian/guitar version, but the face plate covered up the unused control pot holes. (Cost savings, no doubt.) The bass version's circuitry deletes the reverb and trem also, so the circuitry inside looks quite a bit different (much simpler). Both bass and guitar versions used the same Utah 12" speaker and same interior ported cabinet. There is also a bass version that has a taller cabinet with more interior volume. These amps were released under various brand names, including Versatone, Audio Guild, Lyrc, Universal, Titano, and Bonham. Here's the key point for bass players: The bass amp sounds quite different (better in my view) than the guitar amp when used for bass, particularly when pushed into its glorious overdrive sound. Playing bass through the guitar amp does not get you the sound of the Versatone bass amp. For that reason I hope folks don't buy the much more plentiful guitar amps, particularly the single Output Transformer version, and think they are going to hear what the Versatone bass amp sounds like. Not the same animal.

 

[Bruce Sahroian]

Hello;
Me again! Yes my Versatone was a single channel amp with the pan-o-flex! It had a 12" Utah speaker and an 8" speaker which I had replaced with a much better 8" speaker. It sure made a difference, but made the amp much heavier!!
Used it mostly for practice and recording! Tried a couple gigs with it but it just didn't have enough for the band I was in! So I used (juste to make sure the bass came through) an Acoustic 360! (What a Beast!!)
Thats when I figured that I had to re-create Versatone amp only larger so I did, using a 15" speaker and a 10" speaker both of high quality. Drove it with an AB Systems Power amp and a (at the time) Peavey 1000 pre amp.
Wasn't what I really wanted, but worked very well. Just Recently read a lengthy post about the Behringer Bass V amp pro pre amp. Nothing ventured nothing gained!! So I got my swetty mitts on one and so far, I am just blown away by how well it works with the rest of my rig! BTW! Amp is so loud and clear and had way more features (STUFF!!!) than I can use! WAY MORE!!
Im thinking this is the modern version! The Behringer has a crossover! It has separate low and high volume control, It has 32 different amp head modelers!! Just amazing!!! Especially for the price!! The manual is really crappy, but with a couple young minds here on Bass Talk they had a lot of this really figured out even supplying a "quick start guide"!
Nothing is wrong with re-creating the past but In my thirst of knowledge of old amps and newer amps, I'm finding that most of the electronics used in the older amps aren't around (made) any more! Case in point the Acoustic 360 re-issue that costs so much, it's not affordable!!! Lets face it, as bassists we are mostly changing to get that sound (what ever it is) that we want but I find that thinking it's not available any longer is a phrase to put my mind to work to discover newer things that "get me just where I want to be"!!! Even at 72 years of age!
Bruce

 

[BassmanPaul]

Even at 72 years of age!
Bruce

What’s wrong with seventy two? I’ll be there myself in January.

 

[Bruce Sahroian]

Hello;
Nothing's wrong except Im finding out that things don't work as good as they used to!! (long time since I played)
My mind still works alright!
Next is a five string bass!
I know it's kind of timely but when I was playing (back when) All this fuss over the Versatone, My first amp I bought new was a Standel Artists, with a single 15 " JBL D-130 Speaker! Remember when all a bass player had was a volume knob, a bass knob, and a treble knob, on their amp that was it! The only difference in sound you made was dialing your bass knobs around! Mostly just that! That was kind of limited cause you played a Fender P Bass With a single "split" pickup! (passive pickups) Today, you can't touch an old P bass for less than some serious cash!!!
Bruce

 

[Happy Face]

Hello;
Nothing's wrong except Im finding out that things don't work as good as they used to!! (long time since I played)
My mind still works alright!

Sometimes our memories deceive us. I've found that when I buy or borrow some amps that I used in the past, I am disappointed by the tone.

That, however, does not apply to the Versatone I bought a couple of years ago. The same two speaker version as you mentioned. It is an awesome studio amp.

 

[BassmanPaul]

Hey Bruce, wait until you try a six string like I’m playing in my avatar!

 

[Bruce Sahroian]

Hello;
Got my mind full now with the Behringer Bass V-amp Pro and the 4 strings I have now!
As I am not actively seeking any gigs, I sort of am fulfilling a quest to finish my bass amp modeled after the Versatone I had and am finding that this new pre-amp gives me way more than I expected! (WAY MORE!)
Here is a thought, After we are finished in this life, while we are here, Do we give a thought as to a determination as to the "items" we acquired along life's path? The Versatones', Fenders,Gibson's, Other Creations, Plus the (sometime) mountain of "support" items associated?

Bruce

 

[D.M.N.]

To be clear, the Versatone bass version was a single channel amp that used the same chassis as the two channel accordian/guitar version, but the face plate covered up the unused control pot holes. (Cost savings, no doubt.) The bass version's circuitry deletes the reverb and trem also, so the circuitry inside looks quite a bit different (much simpler). Both bass and guitar versions used the same Utah 12" speaker and same interior ported cabinet. There is also a bass version that has a taller cabinet with more interior volume. These amps were released under various brand names, including Versatone, Audio Guild, Lyrc, Universal, Titano, and Bonham. Here's the key point for bass players: The bass amp sounds quite different (better in my view) than the guitar amp when used for bass, particularly when pushed into its glorious overdrive sound. Playing bass through the guitar amp does not get you the sound of the Versatone bass amp. For that reason I hope folks don't buy the much more plentiful guitar amps, particularly the single Output Transformer version, and think they are going to hear what the Versatone bass amp sounds like. Not the same animal.

I believe in another thread you mention the guitar and bass version also using the same transformers. Given the similarities, what do you think makes the guitar version not sound the same, just the added trem and reverb circuitry? If the case is they share the same speakers, transformers, and basic circuitry, it'd be fairly simple to convert the guitar version to the bass one, no? I have a line on a Versatone 133, but am wondering how close it really is to the Pan-o-Flex.

 

[Mpacificar]

Might have a line on a Audio Guild Bonham 249 “double bass”.

How close is this to a Versatone pan-o-flex?


I plan on using it in the studio. As an option vs a flip top. (Would this be different enough to justify the purchase)


ive spent the last couple nights on the web trying to make sense of it all. But it’s confusing. Help me talkbass.com. You’re my only hope.

 

[Robal]

Might have a line on a Audio Guild Bonham 249 “double bass”.

How close is this to a Versatone pan-o-flex?


I plan on using it in the studio. As an option vs a flip top. (Would this be different enough to justify the purchase)

ive spent the last couple nights on the web trying to make sense of it all. But it’s confusing. Help me talkbass.com. You’re my only hope.

That model 249 (with its a single channel, four 7591a power tubes, and a 12" speaker) would be in the format of a Versatone branded bass amp. The cabinet for the 249 is taller and has more interior volume than a standard Versatone cab, which does change the sound a bit. Compared to a B15, the 249 can do both clean (Carol Kaye) and overdrive (Jack Casady). The 15" speaker in the B15 sounds fuller than the 12" speaker in the 249. I have both amps and love them both.

 

[Mpacificar]

That model 249 (with its a single channel, four 7591a power tubes, and a 12" speaker) would be in the format of a Versatone branded bass amp. The cabinet for the 249 is taller and has more interior volume than a standard Versatone cab, which does change the sound a bit. Compared to a B15, the 249 can do both clean (Carol Kaye) and overdrive (Jack Casady). The 15" speaker in the B15 sounds fuller than the 12" speaker in the 249. I have both amps and love them both.

Thank you!!! I’ll report back if I bring it home.

 

[Patrice B]

Zombifying this thread!

I could use an old Sherwood S7700-III (Stereo PP 7868) with one channel only treble and the other, only bass. I would have to mod the AUX or TAPE MON input for bass however. And add some suitable speakers…

For what it’s worth, 7591 and 7868 is the same tube electrically except socket and pinout.

**Edit: I also have my Heathkit AA-100, stereo PP 7591…

 

[andertone]

I just scored a Versatone 133 chassis that had been in storage since the 90's. Retubed it with EH7591A's (big bottles) and preamp tubes, and it fires right up
Now to get a cabinet built for it. There is some hiss when turned up, my tech says the caps are fine, I suspect
some laborious and tedious resister checking might be in order. At present, it has too much noise to record with at Jack Casady volumes, but the sound is glorious

 

[Robal]

I just scored a Versatone 133 chassis that had been in storage since the 90's. Retubed it with EH7591A's (big bottles) and preamp tubes, and it fires right up
Now to get a cabinet built for it. There is some hiss when turned up, my tech says the caps are fine, I suspect
some laborious and tedious resister checking might be in order. At present, it has too much noise to record with at Jack Casady volumes, but the sound is glorious

Were you able to get your Versatone chassis into a cabinet that you like? If so, pictures please!

 

[andertone]

Yes, a cabinet maker made a custom copy that I can beat up. This is how it looks, as fate would have it, I bought
an Audio Guild guitar version of this amp with stock V12PXC2 that I am keeping pristine. Gigged it last weekend,
it absolutely killed. Foot pedal used with stop at "normal" tubey volume and floored at 2:00 on the Versatone.
Finally!