victor wooten bass camp

[Kmose]

I am thinking of attending Victor Wootens Bass and Nature camp and was wondering if anyone out there has attended and could give me some insight or reccomendations.

 

[kesslari]

I have also been, and been back.
We who have been don't tend to talk much about it, it's one of those things that you can't describe to people in advance without changing their experience.

I will say that it's probably the best week I've ever spent in terms of musical growth, personal growth, great times and learning.
Come with an open mind, and you will likely have a similar experience.
Come with an attitude of "Dude, just show me how to double-thumb and shred" and you'll likely have a very different experience than I did.

 

[mailboxmoney]

Anybody got a link for how to sign up?
TIA

 

[Kmose]

Great! I am planning on showing up with an open mind and no expectations. Info about the camp can be found at www.victorwooten.com

 

[chadhargis]

I inquired about the camps, and am thinking of trying to make one of the weekend theory courses. Wooten Woods (where the camps are held) is about 20 miles of so from my house, so it's practically in my back yard. I'd be foolish not to go.

 

[dalconthenovice]

i want to attend so badly! but i get paid very little now adays seeing as i gig maybe only once a week nowadays but i WILL attend this camp someday if i have to bleed the money out of my face

 

[metalstorm]

I did it, and didn't care much for the whole nature and hippy stuff. However the musical elements are definitely worth it. I highly recommend it.

 

[K-ALEMAN]

I've been wanting to attend for a while now and finally this is the year for me. I sent my deposit and release forms in about 2 weeks ago. That someone as busy as he is can still put something like this together year after year amazes me. I know he has a lot of help but, he'll be in Japan at the end of March until a couple of day's before camp. I've read nothing but great thing's about this experience.

 

[Funkturnal]

he'll be in Japan at the end of March until a couple of day's before camp.

Not to hijack this thread, but I've got tickets for one of those shows in Tokyo! The lineup will feature his brothers Regi and Joseph, and drummer Derico Watson. (Drummer was originally supposed to be Dennis Chambers.)

Anyone seen this show with this (or similar) lineup recently? Any idea what kind of repertoire I can expect?

 

[clefface]

I just got word that I got in just waiting for funding from my college to send in my deposit im so excited

 

[K-ALEMAN]

Right on clefface. My name is Kevin Aleman and I got in also. It would be cool to meet you and any other TB members who are attending.

 

[rditmars]

I'll be there, too (Rick Ditmars). You'll recognize me by the gray.

 

[Crunktacular]

Thanks for posting this!!! It's only a few hours drive from me. It looks like a blast.

I wonder which class is the best one to start with.

 

[JeffBerlin]

If anybody attended the camp, can you describe what you learned there? What kind of music did you practice?

 

[JeffBerlin]

Hi Guys! This is my second request to find out what you guys practiced at the camp! I am interested because I don't know how Victor's camp operates.

If you attended, what type of music were you given to work on? What new musical perspectives were you given to improve your playing and musical understanding? Thanks!

 

[K-ALEMAN]

Hi Guys! This is my second request to find out what you guys practiced at the camp! I am interested because I don't know how Victor's camp operates.

If you attended, what type of music were you given to work on? What new musical perspectives were you given to improve your playing and musical understanding? Thanks!

This is my first time going so I don't know first hand what we will learn but, if you haven't seen these it might give you an idea of what to expect. Also, it would be cool to meet all the TB members that are attending this year. I heard that many of the attendees get together at night and have little jam sessions.

 

[kesslari]

Hi Guys! This is my second request to find out what you guys practiced at the camp! I am interested because I don't know how Victor's camp operates.

If you attended, what type of music were you given to work on? What new musical perspectives were you given to improve your playing and musical understanding? Thanks!

Hi Jeff,

I've attended and consider the experience extremely valuable and a big contribution to my recent musical growth. Yet I hesitate to reply. I have great respect for your musical knowledge and your ideas about musical education, and I personally don't have a rat's patootie's worth of your skill and knowledge, or ability to argue or debate persuasively on the topic. It would be much more informative for you and Victor to have a beer and discuss this.

With that said, and so as not to seem like I'm withholding or like there's some secret - I'll give it a shot.

A lot of Victor's camp really revolves around the "10 aspects of Music" as outlined in his book "The Music Lesson". So things like dynamics, phrasing, articulation, space, listening - all are covered and practiced, with tools to practice them. Also notes and note choices, and various approaches to them. Also fingerboard harmony and knowledge - addressing the physical issue that many bass players simply don't know all the notes on their instrument well, if at all.

Much of the music that was given to work on was groove-oriented (motown/R&B/funk/latin). There was much more focus on "making it groove" than on soloing.

Another key is that there are several instructors with very different perspectives and all of them present their (sometimes contradictory) perspectives in dizzying contrast - the student is not left thinking there is a "single right way" to approach the instrument, but is able to consider multiple perspectives and form his or her own conclusions. Steve Bailey's approach is very different from Victors, and both are different from yours. All work very well for those excellent players. There are common aspects to those three approaches, and differences.

One more key aspect is the nature-and-awareness thing. The fundamental idea is that music as essentially expression and communication, and you have more to express and communicate if you are aware of the world around you. I remember you from BIT in LA, and I know you know the syndrome - the prodigy-youth who practices 16 hours a day and has tremendous technique, but really has nothing to say - their playing sounds like "check me out, I practice 16 hours a day!" (because that's most of their experience of life) as opposed to a player who can make you understand the feeling of a broken heart or express some other strong emotion.

As far as new perspectives - one I can mention that was new to me was a new sense of "don't fear wrong notes". Myself (and I think many musicians) can be so afraid of hitting a wrong note that we play with a lot of inner (and physical) tension. I've been told "there are no wrong notes", "if you make a mistake, play it again like you mean it and it's jazz", etc. Hearing Victor solo using only the 5 "wrong" notes (the notes that were not part of the scale/chord tonality of a groove) but play with conviction, dynamics, great timing, and make it sound good, and then solo using only the 7 "in" tones, but with bad timing, poor dynamics, etc and sound "bad" - then having an opportunity to do that myself - that was very ear-opening for me. I still like to play "right" notes, but I have much more faith that I can play through the wrong notes and make them a part of what I have to express.

What wasn't covered was a lot of technique. Victor is known for slap, and a lot of people had questions about that, which he answered when asked, but the focus was on music, communication and expression.

Hope that makes sense, if not, the error is in probably in me, and not in the materials I'm trying to describe.

 

[JeffBerlin]

Hi Jeff,

I've attended and consider the experience extremely valuable and a big contribution to my recent musical growth. Yet I hesitate to reply. I have great respect for your musical knowledge and your ideas about musical education, and I personally don't have a rat's patootie's worth of your skill and knowledge, or ability to argue or debate persuasively on the topic. It would be much more informative for you and Victor to have a beer and discuss this.

With that said, and so as not to seem like I'm withholding or like there's some secret - I'll give it a shot.

A lot of Victor's camp really revolves around the "10 aspects of Music" as outlined in his book "The Music Lesson". So things like dynamics, phrasing, articulation, space, listening - all are covered and practiced, with tools to practice them. Also notes and note choices, and various approaches to them. Also fingerboard harmony and knowledge - addressing the physical issue that many bass players simply don't know all the notes on their instrument well, if at all.

Much of the music that was given to work on was groove-oriented (motown/R&B/funk/latin). There was much more focus on "making it groove" than on soloing.

Another key is that there are several instructors with very different perspectives and all of them present their (sometimes contradictory) perspectives in dizzying contrast - the student is not left thinking there is a "single right way" to approach the instrument, but is able to consider multiple perspectives and form his or her own conclusions. Steve Bailey's approach is very different from Victors, and both are different from yours. All work very well for those excellent players. There are common aspects to those three approaches, and differences.

One more key aspect is the nature-and-awareness thing. The fundamental idea is that music as essentially expression and communication, and you have more to express and communicate if you are aware of the world around you. I remember you from BIT in LA, and I know you know the syndrome - the prodigy-youth who practices 16 hours a day and has tremendous technique, but really has nothing to say - their playing sounds like "check me out, I practice 16 hours a day!" (because that's most of their experience of life) as opposed to a player who can make you understand the feeling of a broken heart or express some other strong emotion.

As far as new perspectives - one I can mention that was new to me was a new sense of "don't fear wrong notes". Myself (and I think many musicians) can be so afraid of hitting a wrong note that we play with a lot of inner (and physical) tension. I've been told "there are no wrong notes", "if you make a mistake, play it again like you mean it and it's jazz", etc. Hearing Victor solo using only the 5 "wrong" notes (the notes that were not part of the scale/chord tonality of a groove) but play with conviction, dynamics, great timing, and make it sound good, and then solo using only the 7 "in" tones, but with bad timing, poor dynamics, etc and sound "bad" - then having an opportunity to do that myself - that was very ear-opening for me. I still like to play "right" notes, but I have much more faith that I can play through the wrong notes and make them a part of what I have to express.

What wasn't covered was a lot of technique. Victor is known for slap, and a lot of people had questions about that, which he answered when asked, but the focus was on music, communication and expression.

Hope that makes sense, if not, the error is in probably in me, and not in the materials I'm trying to describe.

No, your description is fine! My question would be, did you receive assignments about musical things to practice? What did you practice to improve your knowledge of bass and music itself? P.S. The best way to avoid playing wrong notes is to know what they are in order to avoid them! Hopefully someone explained this to you.

 

[kesslari]

No, your description is fine! My question would be, did you receive assignments about musical things to practice? What did you practice to improve your knowledge of bass and music itself? P.S. The best way to avoid playing wrong notes is to know what they are in order to avoid them! Hopefully someone explained this to you.

Ah, but the world is full of people who know exactly what the right notes are, but play in a stilted and non-expressive manner because they are afraid - afraid of hitting the wrong notes.

I think we're running into a difference in underlying assumptions. It's like two schools of language, one that begins from books as a way to learn fundamentals, one that begins from conversations. An instructor from school one asks "what books did you start with?" And a student from school 2 says "well, we didn't start from a book..." "What do you mean, you didn't start from a book?"

Consequently, I don't remember my experience in terms of assignments. I remember it more in terms of inspiration - not that I was assigned particular work, but that I was inspired to take it up. To cover what I began to practice, or how I organized my learning - I might try to tackle that in another post. Yes, there were sessions about "right notes" - Steve Bailey is big on that. Chord tones and understanding how modes fit with chords in the harmonized western scale... Also definitely exercises to improve our knowledge of the bass - a couple of instructors demonstrated (what was to most of us a) nearly mystifying and intimate knowledge of their instrument, and provided their perspectives and exercises for developing that skill set.

Honestly, I think the best way for you to answer your questions to your own satisfaction - Victor often has guest instructors who come in for an evening. Gerald Veasley and Adam Nitti were among the cats who came to do a guest slot at our camp - both definitely instructors with their own camps, schools, and methodologies. Why don't you go and guest? I think you'd have a great time, the students and staff are wonderful, warm musicians and menschen. Plus you'd get firsthand answers to your questions.

 

[kesslari]

What did you practice to improve your knowledge of bass and music itself?

I can't take credit for this idea, and I can't say that it's Victor's idea (though it may be). I first heard it articulated by a cat named Dave Welsch, one of the instructors at the camp, and it has been perhaps the strongest guiding principle for my practice since I heard it. And again, any issues with the concept are likely to be with my explanation, rather than of the concept itself...

Imagine a Venn diagram (those three overlapping circles, each representing a concept, where each pair overlaps and there is a smaller central area in which all three circles overlap - that is considered the "sweet spot" where all three concepts merge.

Let our Venn diagram represent a Complete Musician (my term). Each of the three concept/elements is essential to musical wholeness. A musician can succeed with only one of the three (rare) or two of the three (more common), but all would agree that the best AND most well rounded musicians are strong in all three.

Let's call the first circle "Musical Knowledge". This would include things like chords and chord tones, scales, arpeggios, music theory, ability to read. It is possible for someone to be very strong in this area (but weak in others) and not be a great musician, in the same way that it is possible for someone to have a brilliant vocabulary and knowledge of the English language, but not be very interesting in a conversation. Alternately, such a person might have little depth in a topic, but still sound great talking about it.

Let's call the second circle "Creativity", really, "having something to say". Some of the early blues musicians may have succeeded on this strength alone, without a great knowledge of musical theory or sometimes even great technique, but with a tremendous ability to communicate and have audiences resonate with the emotions that they could project. This would be analogous to someone who is not fluent in English, but may be a fascinating partner in conversation anyway because of his depth of knowledge or emotional expressiveness.

The third circle in our Venn diagram we'll call "Technique". Many people approach this as the most important of the three, and rock music in particular has plenty of examples of people who gain fame or noteriety because of their technique, without having much to communicate or much knowledge of music.

Some people have succeeded based on strength in just one area. More have been successful with two - we can think of plenty of examples of fiery and knowelgeable technicians who are sometimes criticized for lack of emotional expressiveness, or of people who played more simply than their peers (less "technique") but had incredible musical knowledge and depth and creativity and expression. Some people might describe Monk or Miles this way - certainly not the most technical of their peers (think Art Tatum and Dizzy) but absolutely memorable and brilliant musicians.

But the musician who has mastery in all three areas - technique, knowledge, and creativity - this is the cat who can play in any style, setting, or situation, and shine.

So since my experience at WootCamp, this has guided my practice - ensuring that I am working on things from all three areas (musical knowledge, creativity, and technique). Musical knowledge for me currently includes working on "Chord Studies for the Electric Bass", studying the repertoire of James Jamerson and James Brown, and an analytic approach to Real Book tunes, as well as exercises based on Hindustani music and rhythmic subdivisions.

Technique for me currently involves making my right hand as steady as possible, so playing 16th note funk grooves for extended periods is the biggest chunk of work there, along with focusing on noticing when I tense up unnecessarily and working on releasing that tension.

Creativity is perhaps the hardest to describe via text, so I'll leave that one alone for now.

Do you feel that the Players School addresses all three areas, or focuses primarily on Knowledge, trusting that students will work on creativity and technique on their own?