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victor wooten bass camp

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I can't take credit for this idea, and I can't say that it's Victor's idea (though it may be). I first heard it articulated by a cat named Dave Welsch, one of the instructors at the camp, and it has been perhaps the strongest guiding principle for my practice since I heard it. And again, any issues with the concept are likely to be with my explanation, rather than of the concept itself...

Imagine a Venn diagram (those three overlapping circles, each representing a concept, where each pair overlaps and there is a smaller central area in which all three circles overlap - that is considered the "sweet spot" where all three concepts merge.

Let our Venn diagram represent a Complete Musician (my term). Each of the three concept/elements is essential to musical wholeness. A musician can succeed with only one of the three (rare) or two of the three (more common), but all would agree that the best AND most well rounded musicians are strong in all three.

Let's call the first circle "Musical Knowledge". This would include things like chords and chord tones, scales, arpeggios, music theory, ability to read. It is possible for someone to be very strong in this area (but weak in others) and not be a great musician, in the same way that it is possible for someone to have a brilliant vocabulary and knowledge of the English language, but not be very interesting in a conversation. Alternately, such a person might have little depth in a topic, but still sound great talking about it.

Let's call the second circle "Creativity", really, "having something to say". Some of the early blues musicians may have succeeded on this strength alone, without a great knowledge of musical theory or sometimes even great technique, but with a tremendous ability to communicate and have audiences resonate with the emotions that they could project. This would be analogous to someone who is not fluent in English, but may be a fascinating partner in conversation anyway because of his depth of knowledge or emotional expressiveness.

The third circle in our Venn diagram we'll call "Technique". Many people approach this as the most important of the three, and rock music in particular has plenty of examples of people who gain fame or noteriety because of their technique, without having much to communicate or much knowledge of music.

Some people have succeeded based on strength in just one area. More have been successful with two - we can think of plenty of examples of fiery and knowelgeable technicians who are sometimes criticized for lack of emotional expressiveness, or of people who played more simply than their peers (less "technique") but had incredible musical knowledge and depth and creativity and expression. Some people might describe Monk or Miles this way - certainly not the most technical of their peers (think Art Tatum and Dizzy) but absolutely memorable and brilliant musicians.

But the musician who has mastery in all three areas - technique, knowledge, and creativity - this is the cat who can play in any style, setting, or situation, and shine.

So since my experience at WootCamp, this has guided my practice - ensuring that I am working on things from all three areas (musical knowledge, creativity, and technique). Musical knowledge for me currently includes working on "Chord Studies for the Electric Bass", studying the repertoire of James Jamerson and James Brown, and an analytic approach to Real Book tunes, as well as exercises based on Hindustani music and rhythmic subdivisions.

Technique for me currently involves making my right hand as steady as possible, so playing 16th note funk grooves for extended periods is the biggest chunk of work there, along with focusing on noticing when I tense up unnecessarily and working on releasing that tension.

Creativity is perhaps the hardest to describe via text, so I'll leave that one alone for now.

Do you feel that the Players School addresses all three areas, or focuses primarily on Knowledge, trusting that students will work on creativity and technique on their own?

Thanks for your detailed response to my inquiries. You have certainly raised some thought in me and the first question that I would like to ask is this: Can you play better?

I look at any instructional event as something that must make one know more about music and bass than when they first arrived. The philosophy of learning musical content is the main factor, the main point of regard. Nobody, anywhere, can find great musicianship, find their art, learn to get the music to flow out of them, if they haven't learned how to play.

Emotion in music creativity in music, art, performance, groove, pocket, all come to those who have learned how to play. These things are always available to anybody who play well, which says that the first thing is to learn how to play. Creating is easy. Even a kid band with 15 year old players who can barely play a note, always play those couple of notes with their own innocent brand of creativity. Actually, one can't stop emotion from entering into one's performance even if they tried.

If I may, here's a little insight into your right hand exercise that you mentioned. There is nothing wrong with your right hand so stop working on it. Working on one handed bass is like working on one legged running. You need two hands, and lots of music to use them with in order to synch up both limbs. What you are doing won't help you because you have no musical reason to use your right hand except for 16th note ostinatos. Much of music is NOT made up of ostinatos which means that you may be practicing a principle that doesn't exist in music.

Please offer your thoughts if you have any more. Thanks.
 
Thanks for your detailed response to my inquiries. You have certainly raised some thought in me and the first question that I would like to ask is this: Can you play better?

In a word, yes. In several words - my playing has improved significantly since the camp, and the rate of improvement is significantly higher than it was before (e.g., learning and integrating more and faster). Measurable improvements in instrument knowledge and ability to play musically over changes as well as in dexterity (ability to play complex passages) and most of all, in my understanding - when I transcribe something, my ability to understand why a line works the way it does is much higher.

Thanks for your comment on ostinatos. Again, I think that the difficulty of written communication - 5 minutes in person would probably clarify things more than pages of writing. In this case, "playing 16th note funk grooves for extended periods" involves working in a framework of things like "Come On, Come Over" and the like, and 16th note Samba/Mambo grooves, working in improvisation and harmonic exercises while still keeping the groove. I'm still not probably getting across the essence of what I'm doing...
It would be helpful, if in addition to saying why that may not be productive, you would add an exercise or assignment that you feel would be productive to someone who is playing a lot of 16th note fingerstyle funk, for developing greater facility and ability. That would certainly help someone like me to better understand what you *are* recommending in addition to what you're *not* recommending.

Hopefully I'll be able to attend a PS weeklong intensive so that I, as well as you, might better understand both the answers to your questions and mine, and to better understand the underlying ideas and concepts that form the context for your questions.

Thank you for a good conversation here.
 
In a word, yes. In several words - my playing has improved significantly since the camp, and the rate of improvement is significantly higher than it was before (e.g., learning and integrating more and faster). Measurable improvements in instrument knowledge and ability to play musically over changes as well as in dexterity (ability to play complex passages) and most of all, in my understanding - when I transcribe something, my ability to understand why a line works the way it does is much higher.

Thanks for your comment on ostinatos. Again, I think that the difficulty of written communication - 5 minutes in person would probably clarify things more than pages of writing. In this case, "playing 16th note funk grooves for extended periods" involves working in a framework of things like "Come On, Come Over" and the like, and 16th note Samba/Mambo grooves, working in improvisation and harmonic exercises while still keeping the groove. I'm still not probably getting across the essence of what I'm doing...
It would be helpful, if in addition to saying why that may not be productive, you would add an exercise or assignment that you feel would be productive to someone who is playing a lot of 16th note fingerstyle funk, for developing greater facility and ability. That would certainly help someone like me to better understand what you *are* recommending in addition to what you're *not* recommending.

Hopefully I'll be able to attend a PS weeklong intensive so that I, as well as you, might better understand both the answers to your questions and mine, and to better understand the underlying ideas and concepts that form the context for your questions.

Thank you for a good conversation here.

You are welcome to come to any Onee Week event that we have. In fact, I guarantee you that you will get your mind blown if you come in September. Good luck!
 
Demonator - Do it! I believe there are openings for the session this month.
It will be a huge boost to your playing and development.
 
You are welcome to come to any Onee Week event that we have. In fact, I guarantee you that you will get your mind blown if you come in September. Good luck!

Is it a Onee week to help with counting 16ths? The "anda" week comes next? :D

Thanks for the invitation, I'll look forward to taking you up on it.
 
IT IS WORTH IT!!!!
I am a very opinionated, stubborn ******* in real life; but I went to that camp with an ulterior motive..and that week changed my life.....I am still stubborn and opinionated but I understand what it takes to be a true musician in touch with your inner self so as to produce the best possible performance and expression of your self that you can through music.
and there was this guy from cali ...kess something was his name....ugh he ruined everything by being a troublemakker!!!!

HEY J!!! its Boris

(protecting your identity if that is what you want!!!)
 
IT IS WORTH IT!!!!
I am a very opinionated, stubborn ******* in real life; but I went to that camp with an ulterior motive..and that week changed my life.....I am still stubborn and opinionated but I understand what it takes to be a true musician in touch with your inner self so as to produce the best possible performance and expression of your self that you can through music.
and there was this guy from cali ...kess something was his name....ugh he ruined everything by being a troublemakker!!!!

HEY J!!! its Boris

(protecting your identity if that is what you want!!!)

yeah, that guy Boris is STUBBORN AND OPINIONATED!!!

Great to see you here, amigo! :D
 
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I'm not speaking about Victor's camp (I would never do such a thing) but I do speak about ALL events worldwide that offer methods and ideas to help you guys to play better.

Some have said that that their playing has improved after going to these different events. I don't believe this! Why? Because nobody improves as a player and in music unless you are practicing musical things. The bass is a device no more or less valid in existence as a spoon is. If you don't use a spoon correctly, then you need to learn how. A bass is only different from a spoon because it takes more time to learn how to use it.

Talking about how to use a spoon is meaningless. Only practicing using one will allow you to learn how to hold one according to Emily Post. Philsophy lessons about bass playing are pointless because they do not replace quality of information to review and facts to regard each day. Bass players oftem play as if they are holding a spoon without having learned how to use one. They are clumsy, awkward, sluggish, and without knowledge of the language necessary to function on one (music). Those who feel that they improved from any and all the special events that they attended; can you read a chart better or solo with more understanding of what soloing actually is? Can you solo through chord changes any better (for academic's sake, not for art!)? Do you comp better and in different keys and different feels? What has anybody improved in if their touching a bass hasn't been upgraded from the first to the last day that they were at their special events?

I can talk about flying an airplane and get a "feel good" lecture about the philosophy of flight from Sully, but until I get into the facts related to it, I won't know how to pilot anything. Without music and homework, it'll all be a smokescreen to cover the fact that I didn't get better as a player. I just thought that I did. This is one reason why so many players don't want anything to do with music and why so many teachers won't teach it. Too much truth and hard work!

Does anyone agree? Please let me know your thoughts about this because, to repeat, I am NOT commenting about any one event. This would be rude. But I do point out that ALL OF US have an opportunity to give to you guys some principles about bass playing, to help you to play better than you do today. Maybe it would be a good thing if all of us teacher/players/ event givers/ DVD artists, etc aimed higher in to musical part of bass! Thanks Guys!
 
IT IS WORTH IT!!!!
I am a very opinionated, stubborn ******* in real life; but I went to that camp with an ulterior motive..and that week changed my life.....I am still stubborn and opinionated but I understand what it takes to be a true musician in touch with your inner self so as to produce the best possible performance and expression of your self that you can through music.
and there was this guy from cali ...kess something was his name....ugh he ruined everything by being a troublemakker!!!!

HEY J!!! its Boris

(protecting your identity if that is what you want!!!)

Forget your inner self! This is a cliche of bass and it means nothing! Loads of bass players use this cliche. It is a smokescreen to the truth about where one actually is with music and playing. Guys who can't play or barely read music always talk about their "inner self". Cut it out People. Your scheduling is way off the mark. Learn how to play first.
 
I HIGHLY recommend any of Victor's camps. I don't believe any of the nature content was "hippy stuff" either. To speak to what Mr. Berlin was saying, I believe that listening to / participating in a class given by a master will not make you better in and of itself, but by practicing those ideas, concepts, techniques etc. will make you a better musician. I have been to Victor's camp and also Gerald Veasley's twice. I still go back and look at my notes from the camps often. I hope to return to both camps in the future.
 
I'd be surprised if you could learn anything from anyone. First, if you benefitted from the experience, why be concerned about what someone else thinks, even Jeff Berlin? Second, I'd say your dysfunction extends well past the boundaries of "stubborn and opinionated," neither of which are necessarily virtues, anyway. I can't think of a single "stubborn and opinionated" person I've ever liked.

I wanted to say something humorous and witty, but this is much better. I think Wooten may owe this cat a refund.:scowl:
 
Some have said that that their playing has improved after going to these different events. I don't believe this! Why? Because nobody improves as a player and in music unless you are practicing musical things. The bass is a device no more or less valid in existence as a spoon is. If you don't use a spoon correctly, then you need to learn how. A bass is only different from a spoon because it takes more time to learn how to use it.
!

Sorry but this is highly inflammatory statement. Now by Jeffs logic, the fact i am making a point about this, then i am one of the people that are against musical improvement???

Any one can improve at anything just by getting older, experience gives that wisdom to improve. Experiences in life over lap, and because they do you can improve in areas you would not expect. The value of improvement is in the person never the teacher, it is the pupil or student that makes the decision on the value of what they have learned or experienced.

Again, i am disappointed that Jeff attacks other forms of education. If what Jeff teaches is so good then his students will rule the music world, always be in demand, and know that they are indeed the best of the best, while the rest of us wonder "what happened". If that is the case then other forms and music ideas should not be a problem to Jeff, but they obviously are..even this indirect attack on Victors Camp.:scowl:
 
Forget your inner self! This is a cliche of bass and it means nothing! Loads of bass players use this cliche. It is a smokescreen to the truth about where one actually is with music and playing. Guys who can't play or barely read music always talk about their "inner self". Cut it out People. Your scheduling is way off the mark. Learn how to play first.

+1 here.......
 
I think the psuedo-spiritual, 'feel-good' approach to teaching music IS valid and worthwhile, provided the player has ALSO taken the time to vigourously study the 'nuts-and-bolts' approach advocated by people like Mr Berlin. Knowing your instrument inside-and-out, being able to disect harmony/chord theory, and being able to communicate all these things MUSICALLY is very important on your quest to discover your 'inner-artist' on bass. IMO.
 
Dammit.

This thread was good for a while.

oh well...
popcorn.gif
 
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