slap_funk said:
Whew! At least we finally figured out what my problem is. You've given me a lot to think about, and, God willing, with a good therapist I'm gonna be... (sniffle)..I'm gonna be OK.
Kiss me, you magnificent bastard.
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victor wooten&les claypool
- Thread starter bass1
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Whew! At least we finally figured out what my problem is. You've given me a lot to think about, and, God willing, with a good therapist I'm gonna be... (sniffle)..I'm gonna be OK.
Kiss me, you magnificent bastard.
corinpills said:
What a frankly absurd statement. Music is art, and art is subjective. I couldnt give a **** about what other people listen to, I listen to whatever I like the sound of. "More good for the world"? Ridiculous.
Seriously, I want to hear this bass off. We can set aside a forum called "bass offs", where the combatants can post their mp3's, and fellow T.B's can judge the winner. it would be fun.
FunkKing said:
See: Social change, the role of black pop music in the Civil Rights movement in the mid 60's. There are several books on the subject, you could check it out. Talking about introducing African-based rhythms to a white-bread nation still in Eisenhauer-era crewcut mindset, listening to Lawrence Welk and Patti Page. A lot of socioligists give Motown & Stax a lot of credit for introducing parts of black culture to mainstream America. It's, ummm, what do you call it? history.
Of course, how that compares to getting a totally rad string endorsement, I can't judge.
corinpills said:
I had never thought of it from this angle before. a good point.
I know you where taking the piss with the bass off thing but please....... I wanna see one!
picture it, like buddy rich and Gene Krupa
corinpills said:
See: the part of my previous post where i said "music is art, and art is subjective." You're claiming stax/motown musicians are somehow "better" because they were (loosely) part of a political movement? Thats just an opinion, friend.
And I am of the opinion that different music means different things to different people.
puttz buster said:I had never thought of it from this angle before. a good point.
I know you where taking the piss with the bass off thing but please....... I wanna see one!
picture it, like buddy rich and Gene Krupa
Sorry, but I was very much kidding about a bass off (it was a reference to an old Saturday Night Live skit where two metal dudes challange each other to a bass off). I've been playing for over 20 years and I've spent the last 10 trying to get rid of any remnants of chops that I gathered at Berklee and in my younger days (I survived the shred wars). I play a hollowbody bass with flatwounds and all I care about at all is being a supportive bass player. I play pretty melodically, but I just hate chops, I hate licks, all that gear magazine stuff (I consider it a great weakness when I find myself playing a lot in a song, I get very dissapointed in myself). I haven't slapped a bass string in over 12 years (except as a joke) and it's been a while since my right hand did anything on the fretboard. I'm afraid I'm not a very good prospect for a serious bass-off.
And, by the way, those ideas about Motown, Stax, James Brown, etc. being a force for social change are not mine. There's extensive writing on the subject and it's part of the curriculum at many universities. James Brown stopped a riot in Boston right after Martin Luther King Jr. was shot. Stopped people from destroying their own neighborhoods because the groove was just too serious to leave. Now, that's heavy.
Yes, music is art and that's all subjective, but let's not use that as an excuse for having bad taste. Music is also commerce and it's fashion and it effects language (you have all these business people saying things " are a little funky" and "Let's rock and roll, everybody" when they want to get the sales department pumped up- that is business language now that comes from music) and it's many other things. If you're just looking at it on that small level of what you like to listen to in your bedroom, I suppose that's cool and all, but that's not all there is.
Corinpills dosn't seem like a very open minded or creative musician. I have known plenty of these types, not the funnest people to jam with or talk music with. That's alright though as long as he's happy with what he does.
I'm not impressed with bass players who do the exact same thing as 30,000,000 other bass players just like he's not impressed with players who play like Vic or Les. I'm also not impressed with pop bass lines like "my girl" because I don't care about pop music. These are songs for the masses in my mind, and most people don't play instruments, they just like whatever is catchy.
I also don't care about impressing other people which seems to be the basis of Corinpills arguement. I would still like to hear proof that shows Les and Vic only play to impress other musicians as he originally said. I guess anyone who stands out and does something different or original in music only does so to impress others. No one just plays because that's the way they want to express themselves.
I'm not impressed with bass players who do the exact same thing as 30,000,000 other bass players just like he's not impressed with players who play like Vic or Les. I'm also not impressed with pop bass lines like "my girl" because I don't care about pop music. These are songs for the masses in my mind, and most people don't play instruments, they just like whatever is catchy.
I also don't care about impressing other people which seems to be the basis of Corinpills arguement. I would still like to hear proof that shows Les and Vic only play to impress other musicians as he originally said. I guess anyone who stands out and does something different or original in music only does so to impress others. No one just plays because that's the way they want to express themselves.
I learned most of Claypool's lines when I was about 20, and I've tried to learn most of Vics and I'm 32, through this I've learned how to play the bass in a varied and very technically proficient manner - and this includes a huge variety of approaches to playing both WITH musicians and solo - in conclusion you can take whatever you want from any musician and use it for your own ends - hopefully anyone who is serious about music, and especially playing bass, i.e. playing live in a band and recording - kinda like you know Vic and Les are as they are like - TOP PROS - that you would never purley any particualr way to impress other musicians - this is one of the dumbest statements ever made.
There endeth my two cents...
There endeth my two cents...
Well, geez, Bad Brains, thanks so much for the personal slam that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. And here I thought we were having discourse, a discussion . I would actually think that a discussion of different rolls for bass players would be worthwhile, but I'll try to remember to have the same opinion as everyone else from now on. Maybe you could send me a list of players I'm supposed to love to so I don't present super controversial and negative ideas like 'the bass is usually a supportive instrument".
You're right, though, in a way. I don't jam. I play songs, I play proper songs with dicernable melodies that you can remember after a few listens. It's just what I'm into, sorry.
And as this thread winds down to pointlessness, let me assure Funkking that no direspecy was intended in my posts. I've read other posts where you've discussed the merits of Aston Barret's playing and I would imagine we're not really as opposed as this thread might suggest.
You're right, though, in a way. I don't jam. I play songs, I play proper songs with dicernable melodies that you can remember after a few listens. It's just what I'm into, sorry.
And as this thread winds down to pointlessness, let me assure Funkking that no direspecy was intended in my posts. I've read other posts where you've discussed the merits of Aston Barret's playing and I would imagine we're not really as opposed as this thread might suggest.
I wasn't meaning for that to sound like a personal slam. I take back the creative part to what I said because I never heard you play. Far as i'm concerned I give anyone who plays an instrument credit, espically if they have the balls to go up in front of people and play.
As far as being open minded I know people who have similar attitudes towards music as you do. Nothing wrong with it, your into your own thing. I guess I just fall into the "jam" catigory because that's how I have fun playing. And i'm not in a band (or good enough to be in one for that matter) so I don't have any "proper" songs to play and I don't have much interest in doing covers. Whenever I do get in a band chances are it will be a jam type band though. Sure I could play the same planned set all the time but I would get bored. I just prefer those who can go up on stage not having a clue what's going to happen and play some improv.
As far as being open minded I know people who have similar attitudes towards music as you do. Nothing wrong with it, your into your own thing. I guess I just fall into the "jam" catigory because that's how I have fun playing. And i'm not in a band (or good enough to be in one for that matter) so I don't have any "proper" songs to play and I don't have much interest in doing covers. Whenever I do get in a band chances are it will be a jam type band though. Sure I could play the same planned set all the time but I would get bored. I just prefer those who can go up on stage not having a clue what's going to happen and play some improv.
Bad Brains said:
Oh, I play professionally for a living, have released three albums (on indie labels, but still, big enough for someone else to pay for doing them) and played on many others, toured around all of the U.S., Canada and parts of Europe, have opened for major recording artists and have written music for television. Maybe we're looking at it from different angles.
don't think like that. I am also an accomplished bassplayer and playing professional for more than 20 years.seen the whole world and played with internationally known names.there is one thing wrong with most of us.we think we know everything and are stuck in these beliefs and it takes generaly people like you to wake us up and open our narrow minds(it happened a lot to me).Bad Brains said:
as far as "supportive instrument" ,how can anybody say they like ashton barret if they make a statement like that!
Corinpills, you said something about introducing african-based rythms.how can you say that and than say bass is a supportive instrument? I strongly recommend a study of african music.
Feel free to educate me (I am very far from thinking that I know everything). Where's the Wailer's track where Aston Barrett starts tapping and popping and going weedly weedly really fast? I missed that one, I only have the records where he plays the perfect bass part for the song.
corinpills said:
I don't believe that bass is a supportive instrument.it is true in some styles of music but in my opinion with more european based styles.If you go to the african based music (and I say clearly music not rythm because that would imply that only rythm came from africa) there is more a tradition of the bass as a lead instrument.
something you can clearly hear when the electric bass came on the market and players didn't have the limitations off the upright anymore and could finally be heard.
players like jamerson started to put the bass more upfront in the african tradition and taking a very dominant role in the music something that wasn't possible before.
there were probably also people in jamersons time who felt that he was playing "to many notes" and should stick to more basic playing
for me you can play 100.000 notes every bar or 1 note every 100.000 bars, if it fits the song i like it.
I also like players like jamerson,barrett,edwards,etc.. very much... but not because they play "simple".
and yes wooten is more a musicians musician and it is over the top,but if you truly love the instrument you must respect what he does on the bass
I've been playing for about 28 years now. There was a time when Stanley Clarke came out with School Days and I thought, "whoa, I didn't know bass could sound like that!"
I really started to get into the whole wankery thing on bass (and I still enjoy listening to it, when done by a great bass player). I really got into learning chops like that.
However, I got to a point in my musical life where I hated playing. I even quit playing for a time.
I now realize why I gave up music then. All the wankery on bass was unfulling, and it seemed to me that music was becoming less musical and more a lick competition. When I hear music with a good groove going on...even with a very simple bass line...now that's what drives me.
I really cannot understand why anyone would think the statement, "bass is a supportive instrument", is something derogatory. To this day, I hear the wankers and I think "musical masturbation". While some may actually derive some pleasure from this (and who hasn't enjoyed a little musical porn, even when you aren't the one actively participating?), I think any bass player worth anything will still be one that is supportive of the song, rather than one that feels the song exists to support the bass player.
I still believe that a bass player locking in with a drummer and creating a good groove...the kind that makes you start tapping your feet and bouncing your head, is by far a better bass player. All the music that has stood the test of time has had that.
Bass Wankery is great fun to play and has it's place, and I'm really not knocking it. But I also don't care for guitar or drum solos either (whether it be seperate or as a part of a song). But no one will even care, or remember it 100 years from now.
Bass wankery = musical masturbation. Not a bad thing and everyone does it sometimes (and it is certainly enjoyable), but it is nowhere near as satisfying as having everyone equally involved in the music. Different strokes for different folks.
I really started to get into the whole wankery thing on bass (and I still enjoy listening to it, when done by a great bass player). I really got into learning chops like that.
However, I got to a point in my musical life where I hated playing. I even quit playing for a time.
I now realize why I gave up music then. All the wankery on bass was unfulling, and it seemed to me that music was becoming less musical and more a lick competition. When I hear music with a good groove going on...even with a very simple bass line...now that's what drives me.
I really cannot understand why anyone would think the statement, "bass is a supportive instrument", is something derogatory. To this day, I hear the wankers and I think "musical masturbation". While some may actually derive some pleasure from this (and who hasn't enjoyed a little musical porn, even when you aren't the one actively participating?), I think any bass player worth anything will still be one that is supportive of the song, rather than one that feels the song exists to support the bass player.
I still believe that a bass player locking in with a drummer and creating a good groove...the kind that makes you start tapping your feet and bouncing your head, is by far a better bass player. All the music that has stood the test of time has had that.
Bass Wankery is great fun to play and has it's place, and I'm really not knocking it. But I also don't care for guitar or drum solos either (whether it be seperate or as a part of a song). But no one will even care, or remember it 100 years from now.
Bass wankery = musical masturbation. Not a bad thing and everyone does it sometimes (and it is certainly enjoyable), but it is nowhere near as satisfying as having everyone equally involved in the music. Different strokes for different folks.
