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vintage mutron III

#122
DiscoFreq said:
It has 2 battery connectors to have +9 and -9 (18v difference), you can't get that from connecting 1 power source to both connectors. Using a daisy chain is the same as using 1 battery for both :)

I'm not very technical (interested but not enough time), so I hope I said it right ;)
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This is correct. You need isolated power supplies i.e 2 x battery clips from a VooDoo Labs PP2+ or use 2 x GigRig virtual batteries from a non-isolated supply.
 
#123
OhulahanBass said:
Yeah, that is what I'll be doing. Spencer!, why must the power supply be isolated if you don't mind me asking? Any lit that might help me understand such audio electronics better?
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Discofreq put it well. A 1spot basically acts as one 9v battery that can be used with a bunch of pedals. The goofy design of the Mutron needs two batteries because it takes a positive voltage from one and a negative voltage from the other. An isolated supply like the Voodoo PP2 works because each outlet acts as an individual battery.
 
#124
Spencer! said:
Discofreq put it well. A 1spot basically acts as one 9v battery that can be used with a bunch of pedals. The goofy design of the Mutron needs two batteries because it takes a positive voltage from one and a negative voltage from the other. An isolated supply like the Voodoo PP2 works because each outlet acts as an individual battery.
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i wonder why they'd design it like that. can this bizarre power supply effect the mojo of the mutron? because the q-tron also has a need for its own power supply.. maybe somethings going on there??
 
#125
Well having replaced the power jack on my old unit I can say with 100% certainty that the original power supply does indeed use 1 lead for +9 1 for -9 and one ground of course. I tested them on a meter when I did the repair, I wanted to make sure the old power supply was up to the job. That is why the power supply is 3 pin.

In any case you could also just rewire a neutrik midi jack in the mutron and then wire from whatever power supply you have that could provide what's needed. The midi connector actually holds the connection better with the extra non wired 2 pins. That is what I did since I could never find the female or male replacement 3 pin connector. Oh yeah they eat batteries for lunch I remember years ago trying that rather than bring the power supply, it took only one gig to change my mind. :) Oh yeah also I wouldn't do that if you want to keep it original but I had no choice.

And you know I never thought of that odd power configuration as a mojo factor before, interesting hypothesis and something to consider. In all my years I've never seen another device use that arrangement, it's usually either or, hmmm.
Dirk
 
#126
Dirk Diggler said:
And you know I never thought of that odd power configuration as a mojo factor before, interesting hypothesis and something to consider. In all my years I've never seen another device use that arrangement, it's usually either or, hmmm.
Dirk
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hopefully someone with more in depth knowledge will chime in on this. normally i would write it off as "it was the 70s, they had no idea what they were doing.." but, the qtron also needs its own power supply- wich is what leads me to believe it might be a key part of the sound (from the designers standpoint). but then again, most of this thread is about the qtron not having that sound, wich would disproove the power supply idea..

or, maybe the circuit quite simply needs more power than most effects..
 
#127
It's not that it needs more power per se, because +/- 9V is not at all the same as 18V. It's that that specific filter circuit design utilizes + and - rails of power, which allows certain circuit tricks that are not possible otherwise. It would not contribute to "mojo" as such, but it is an integral part of the operation of the filter circuit they designed, such that using any other power supply design would necessarily mean changing the filter design, which would change the way it sounds and acts.

The Q-Tron OTOH uses more power. Not necessarily a better or worse thing, but it is a very real component of why the Q-Tron sounds a bit different from the Mutron III. The filter circuits were designed around different power rails.

There are many modern devices which use +/- power, so it has nothing to do with the '70s; and the devices that use that powering system are ones where the designer bucked the trend and chose a less common power system that would work better in the given application. So you could say they know more about what they're doing than a typical designer who just copies what everyone else has done.
 
#128
I know a few things physical things that set the Mutron from other filters: a) it has a +/- 9V power supply, b) it has vintage components, c) its circuit path uses thick trails of solder not tiny metalic films such as today's printed circuits. All or at least one of these things must contribute to it's uniqueness. I would think the vintage parts and hand soldering has a lot to do with it's sound. Also, it's 18volt difference would allow for more Q correct?
 
#130
my site said:
• Limiters: the Aphex 661/651, Maxon CP9 Pro+, Pigtronix Philosopher, Alesis MicroLimiter, Guyatone BL2, Demeter Compulator, new version of the FEA, Ashly DPX/CLX/CL series, and Symetrix 501 all do a pretty good job of cleanly limiting big signal peaks, although the only ones I'd call "really great" at limiting are the Aphex 651/661 and Ashly DPX/CLX.
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:)
 
#134
I was simply stating physical differences I see in my mutron board compared to other pedals. I figured one of those three differences has a bit to do with sound since every pedal that claims to be based of the mutron (to me) sounds much different. I assume components, voltage and design have more of an effect but also wonder about the solder routing, different material and crossections have different resistances correct? ( I am a ME not an EE, for give my ignorence) Posible this extra resistance is so low it has little or no effect I suppose.
 
#135
well, after wanting it for so long, my vintage mutron III arrived today. just had a short jam with it.

i was only able to play with it alone for a minute just to get it set to your average bootsy setting. with the band (3 piece funk/jam) it surpassed my expectations, even after expecting it to live up to the hype. it sounds so.. fat and chunky. its very wet but doesent sound like that nasty high-resonance kind of wetness.

i initially intended to just buy it to use for recording, and special occasions, but screw that. this thing is going on my board.

im going to try and get my hands on a friends qtron to record a/b examples, to put an end to the "the oldschool enclosure isint worth the price" thing.
 
#136
groooooove said:
well, after wanting it for so long, my vintage mutron III arrived today. just had a short jam with it.

i was only able to play with it alone for a minute just to get it set to your average bootsy setting. with the band (3 piece funk/jam) it surpassed my expectations, even after expecting it to live up to the hype. it sounds so.. fat and chunky. its very wet but doesent sound like that nasty high-resonance kind of wetness.

i initially intended to just buy it to use for recording, and special occasions, but screw that. this thing is going on my board.

im going to try and get my hands on a friends qtron to record a/b examples, to put an end to the "the oldschool enclosure isint worth the price" thing.
Click to expand...

Please do so!!
 
#138
bongomania said:
There are many modern devices which use +/- power, so it has nothing to do with the '70s; and the devices that use that powering system are ones where the designer bucked the trend and chose a less common power system that would work better in the given application. So you could say they know more about what they're doing than a typical designer who just copies what everyone else has done.
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Just as a side note, the original Robotalk (and the Maestro FSH-1 it was based on) also used the +/- power setup
 
#140
When I tried my Melos Funky Filter (vintage Japanese copy) for the first time, I had the same experience: FINALLY I knew what they mean with the "wet" sound of the Mu-Tron.

Of all models I tried only those (Univox/Melos) Funky Filters, the (Univox/Melos/Monacor) Effectmatics, the Funky Fish and the Multivox Big Jam Spit Wah have that same "wet" sound as the Mu-Tron III.
 

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