Been working on this for my YR band:
Bass part is iconic, and I'm pitching in on the response part under the outro. The "watch out" part and the "she's a maneater" responses are so syncopated with the bassline that it's gonna be tricky.
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Vocals and Bass
- Thread starter Stedkey
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- worship bass
Been working on this for my YR band:
Bass part is iconic, and I'm pitching in on the response part under the outro. The "watch out" part and the "she's a maneater" responses are so syncopated with the bassline that it's gonna be tricky.
Lots of good advice so far - let me add my overpriced two cents worth. I was a lifelong singing drummer who began attacking the bass in deadly earnest about eleven years ago. Singing and playing bass - even as I was struggling to understand my new instrument - came easily, and I think it's because I approached that juggling act like a drummer.
What makes a drummer good? How can he impart drive and excitement to a song without yanking the tempo all over the place? Or, alternately, hold a delicate ballad steady without dragging it to its death? A big part of it is that he is operating in a subdivided world. He might be PLAYING quarters or eighths, but in his head, he's hearing and feeling sixteenths, or even thirty-seconds.
From that mindset, singing and playing becomes a little easier, because it's ALL in there. If it's not dead on a beat, it's against it. You can master it, and make it yours. Like lots of others have said, take it slow. Break it down.
What makes a drummer good? How can he impart drive and excitement to a song without yanking the tempo all over the place? Or, alternately, hold a delicate ballad steady without dragging it to its death? A big part of it is that he is operating in a subdivided world. He might be PLAYING quarters or eighths, but in his head, he's hearing and feeling sixteenths, or even thirty-seconds.
From that mindset, singing and playing becomes a little easier, because it's ALL in there. If it's not dead on a beat, it's against it. You can master it, and make it yours. Like lots of others have said, take it slow. Break it down.
Interesting thread - I'm yet another non-singing bass player who wishes that I could (my voice isnt very pleasant though). One observation - a band that I recently joined plays a number of Sting songs, his bass parts are great but are typically very simple and repetitive. I imagine that makes singing easier - perhaps thinking of yourself as a singer first and a bass player second??
Nice! I think I also changed the bass line slightly. Just don’t point it out
I think the word is "contrapuntal" - meaning that the bass line and the vocal melody are often independent of one another and therefore difficult to process together.
Actually, being able to do it effectively is in my opinion an underrated skill.
Some famous bass player singers skirted the challenge a little. Geddy Lee very often wrote bass parts and vocal melodies that were not contrapuntal but moved very much together, which makes it easier. Hear the vocals and the bass in your head now:
Actually, being able to do it effectively is in my opinion an underrated skill.
Some famous bass player singers skirted the challenge a little. Geddy Lee very often wrote bass parts and vocal melodies that were not contrapuntal but moved very much together, which makes it easier. Hear the vocals and the bass in your head now:
- "You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice..."
- "Big money goes around the world..."
- "A low wind comes arising, across the cities of the plain..."
Playing bass is much more like playing single note lead on guitar. When you were singing in the past while playing acoustic guitar were you playing single note lead? If not, try singing while playing lead on acoustic guitar and see if it’s as easy as it was in the past. I think you’ll find that it’s not which should give you an indication why it’s so much more difficult to sing while playing bass. Selecting individual notes with the left hand while selecting an individual string to pick or pluck with the right hand takes up too much processing power in the brain, So there’s not enough processing power left to perform a motor skill and recall lyrics and produce the right pitch with the vocal cords. It’s about 3 1/2 functions beyond walking and chewing gum…
That's a nice idea. Listening to some of my own recordings I hear slight bends that sound good, others bad, they're just enough to add a textural detail rather than an obvious pitch change. Slow or slight vibrato to continue it might be viable, easy enough if I practise it. Could be a great sound if using delays, chorus, rather than using the inherent modulation in most chorus effects. (I extended a software synth I wrote to allow similar subtle pitch changes. Mechanical detunes are never enough, cool though they can be..)
Mind you, I like to forge ahead in a punk/metal inspired sort of way with a bass, I like fast melodic moments to keep things interesting, and a lot of the time I use the bass percussively, (but not like slap bass, can't do it). When I want to avoid an ear-bashing I put down a pick and play sea songs, folk tunes, Andean tunes, lots of stuff that could well use methods I wouldn't use when banging away with a pick. I'm just getting good enough to start thinking about this more..
@Wasnex, I like to do small gracenote legatos at times, I picked that up from mtal and rock I liked at times various. Sometimes it's so short it's almost a rhythmic device rather than a pitched thing. Also, heading closer to topic, I like your method of lines as markers on manuscript. I am lousy at reading music but to learn a song I'll often open in Sound Forge, filter heavily, drop markers to subdivide phrases, bars, so I hear various units of construction so I can figure out complex bass parts. I image this method would work well on the unfiltered sound to examine how a vocal overlays a bass part. It would be harder to drop markers with any precision but they can be moved to get some chance of hearing a small part without distractions. I like the Sound Forge controls, they make auditioning, repeating, very fast and easy so at least I don't have to think about that when I do it. It's a very musical editor in that way, not poky, it's good when my hand remembers the moves so my brain doesn't have to, same as with an instrument. I recommend this method to anyone who can't read music, if they have a recording of a song they want to learn.
I play bass and sing. I also play guitar and sing. Playing rhythm guitar and singing is ALWAYS easier than playing bass and singing. That's because you are moving to different chords typically to follow the melody and you are hanging on those chords while you're singing. With the bass, you are playing notes while singing and often times with syncopation that is different than what you are singing.
There are a couple of ways you can deal with that. One is to simplify your bass parts so you're not as busy playing different notes while singing. Remember, the bass is what they dance to but the vocals are what they need to hear the most. I sing a few of the AC/DC songs and luckily for me a lot of their songs the bass is just keeping the beat on the organ tones. It's a lot easier to do that than to play a riff while singing it.
That works fine on some songs but not on all. Some songs have a signature riff that you just have to play all the way through the song. The only answer to that is to keep practicing that riff until you can do it in your sleep. Then when you perform, you do the riff in your sleep and you sing the melody and rhythm that needs to be sung. It's not easy but it can be done. There are a lot of songs that are a combination of the two. They can be challenging but are doable. For the "play it in your sleep" songs, you just have to want to do it enough to get it under your fingers long enough that you really can play it without thinking about it.
You’ve got it. In fact he very rarely plays and sings at the same time. He typically will add a fill or something and then sing. If he plays at all.
Even very good guitarists who sing if you pay attention they don’t really do much playing while they are singing. The problem is that when you’re part of the rhythm section you can’t just stop playing for a bit to sing a verse and then start up again.
I can sing some baselines easier than others. Typically the more the bass carries the melody the easier it gets. But if your playing a real driving riff that requires perfect tone and timing and maybe a bit more speed than you’d prefer it can be very challenging.
I play bass and sing harmony back ups.
When the band was rehearsing (prior to me being a back up singer), I would try to sing along to all the songs.
It was hard but kept getting easier.
Eventually I was able to get on the mic and do it.
The more you sing along as you rehearse and practise, the more natural it becomes.
When the band was rehearsing (prior to me being a back up singer), I would try to sing along to all the songs.
It was hard but kept getting easier.
Eventually I was able to get on the mic and do it.
The more you sing along as you rehearse and practise, the more natural it becomes.
Practice, practice, practice.
It's not easy. ... But, first off start with an easy song, then learn and practice the bass part so you could play it inside out. Then learn the vocals so you can sing then anywhere at anytime, then put the two together. ... Once you get that one song down it'll becomes easier.
It's not easy. ... But, first off start with an easy song, then learn and practice the bass part so you could play it inside out. Then learn the vocals so you can sing then anywhere at anytime, then put the two together. ... Once you get that one song down it'll becomes easier.
IMO this is exactly it! I can only REALLY focus on one thing at a time, and for me, that thing is constantly shifting back and forth between the vocal and the bass.
I also really like the comment above saying that the bass is essentially "soloing" like a guitar lead - very rare for a guitarist to sing while playing lead.
I should go practice!!
Not easy!
I have to work on both separately and, once I'm getting comfortable with both, then I try combining them.
Depending on how that goes, I may try simplifying the bass line to some extent when there isn't something signature that needs to be "right". I figure that it's more important to get the vocals right than it is to get the bassline. But signature or iconic parts need to be right so I put in the work to get them down right from the start.
If I do simplify it, I'll continue working on the bassline over time to get closer to where I want it.
I have to work on both separately and, once I'm getting comfortable with both, then I try combining them.
Depending on how that goes, I may try simplifying the bass line to some extent when there isn't something signature that needs to be "right". I figure that it's more important to get the vocals right than it is to get the bassline. But signature or iconic parts need to be right so I put in the work to get them down right from the start.
If I do simplify it, I'll continue working on the bassline over time to get closer to where I want it.
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Yeah, it’s the practice thing. Many years ago I was thrust into it in a trio that worked 6 nights/wk. Not singing wasn’t an option. Being thrown into the deep end was painful - likely for the audience too - but I can relate that, once learned, the skill becomes easier and easier such that it’s fully unconscious (well, more likely sub-conscious) eventually. Jump in!
I sing lead about 40% of our songs, and harmony on the rest, while walkin’ the bass. I’ve been asked, “how do you do that so well?”. “By doing it poorly many, many times”. There is no substitute for practice and repetition.
Another thing that can’t be overlooked is that it is much easier to sing and play when you actually wrote the song. No one but you will ever know that you compromised on a note or riff to allow you focus on a vocal and verse vise.
Plus when it comes from you memorization seems to be much easier.
Plus when it comes from you memorization seems to be much easier.
Not much different than piano, nor is it more difficult. Now add singing to piano! Now that’s tough!
