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VT + Power amp bass rig

#22
majortoby said:
might be a n00b question, but how to go about filtering/removing those crazy low frequencies that sound like mud, suck power, and can encourage over-excursion? That would be my primary concern with any pre/power amp setup.
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Many power amps have abuilt in HPF set around 20 Hz. Also the VT has a "bass" knob with a center frequency of 125 Hz, IIRC.

In essence, you manage the lows on a pre/power rig just like you would with a head.
 
#23
majortoby said:
might be a n00b question, but how to go about filtering/removing those crazy low frequencies that sound like mud, suck power, and can encourage over-excursion? That would be my primary concern with any pre/power amp setup.
Click to expand...
what pookie said. the vt has the standard ampeg low end rolloff, which greatly helps get rid of a lot of mud freqs.
 
#24
I run mine that way at couple venues.

I do run the pedal board through an M-Audio Audio buddy preamp.
You can run it with just the VT, but you have to crank the volume on the VT pedal. I prefer 'unity' through the pedalboard and ratchet it up at the pre. YMMV

Invalid Link Removed
 
#26
lowfreq33 said:
I'm not saying it can't work, just that it will work better doing it the "correct" way.
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Please define "correct" way. My VT into a couple different power amps that I tried last weekend (one QSC, one Crown) was able to drive both of them into clipping without running ANY of the controls at full.

It's comparable to any of the other outboard preamps I've used to drive power amps (see my sig for a list of preamps I've used and note that they've ALL gone straight into a power amp), and there's nothing incorrect about doing so. In fact, as stated earlier, the manual for the VT even suggests doing this.

I'm speaking from manufacturer's recommendations, personal experience AND personal experience with other preamps to use as a basis for comparison. Where are you speaking from?
 
#27
sometimes you have to go by the book, sometimes you have to tear pages out of the book and wipe your butt with them. this is one of those instances where the latter response is probably most appropriate ;)
 
#29
silky smoove said:
I'm speaking from manufacturer's recommendations, personal experience AND personal experience with other preamps to use as a basis for comparison. Where are you speaking from?
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Since you asked, I'm speaking from a degree in audio engineering and 20 or so years in music. I was unaware that the VT was intended to be used this way by the manufacturer. Most pedals don't have the output to do this.
 
#32
lowfreq33 said:
Since you asked, I'm speaking from a degree in audio engineering and 20 or so years in music. I was unaware that the VT was intended to be used this way by the manufacturer. Most pedals don't have the output to do this.
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I don't begrudge you your degree or your experience, but you didn't answer the first part of my post. I'll elaborate more on what I was looking for:

What's incorrect about running a preamp in front of a power amp that is capable of driving a power amp into clipping without having any of it's tone/level controls maxed out? Your comments would make it seem like more gain is needed to do this "correctly." What purpose would that serve? So you could get by with just barely cracking the tone/level controls open, but ultimately have so little room that you had no control over your output?

This is all coming off as being snarky and mean-spirited, but I'm generally interested in why a hotter output would yield more "correct" results than one that already functions perfectly.
 
#33
Smoove - Depends on your overall gain structure. I don't know the particulars of your rig, but say you're playing an active bass with a hot output, gain 75% up, master 75% up, and some boost on the eq, you're increasing the overall level to the point that you could be clipping the output stage of the VT without knowing it. Then you're clipping the input of the power amp, and therefore the output. There can also be issues with distortion (not the good kind). If the VT Bass is designed with feeding a power amp in mind this probably isn't happening. What I was leaning toward before some people chimed in with real world examples was that the pedal in question was made just to feed a bass amp or DI. I've used similar pedals that wouldn't push a power amp properly.

A good test to do would be to plug the VT into the line level input of a console with the gain (or trim) set to unity. Then you can check on the console's meters how much gain you're actually sending to the power amp. But as long as you're not maxing out the output of the pedal it's probably fine.
 
#35
well the good thing about the vt is that if you clip the output of one slightly, it sounds like an svt with a slightly clipped output, which as we all know is 100% a-1 badass!
 
#38
lowfreq33 said:
Smoove - Depends on your overall gain structure. I don't know the particulars of your rig, but say you're playing an active bass with a hot output, gain 75% up, master 75% up, and some boost on the eq, you're increasing the overall level to the point that you could be clipping the output stage of the VT without knowing it.
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I don't disagree with this at all. That said, the bass I was using as a testing platform was my Warmoth/Status G4 with dual Darkstar pickups. Darkstars are fairly hot, but no abnormally so. The pickups in G&L instruments are WAY hotter, and my bass is certainly lower volume than most active circuits when using any kind of boost in the low-end. That said, it easily drove a QSC and a Crown power amp to clipping when going through my VT at fairly "middle-of-the-road" settings. I didn't bring my Jazz bass which has considerably lower output, but my suspicion is that it would have worked as well.

lowfreq33 said:
A good test to do would be to plug the VT into the line level input of a console with the gain (or trim) set to unity. Then you can check on the console's meters how much gain you're actually sending to the power amp. But as long as you're not maxing out the output of the pedal it's probably fine.
Click to expand...
I've been in two studios recently. One took a signal from the VT into a Radial J48 and it worked great. I didn't get into any particulars about gain with the engineer on that one. The other studio setting took a signal from the VT right into a Mackie board. The engineers commented that the signal from the VT was very hot, and this was with the same settings I had used with the power amps I was testing the day before:
Level: 11 o'clock
Drive: 11 o'clock
Character: 12 o'clock
Bass: 1 o'clock
Mid: 11 o'clock
High: 11 o'clock

As you can see, these are all pretty close to the middle of each controls range. Now, what the position of the knob means to the maximum output of each control is beyond me. Physically the knobs move (going from memory) from 7 o'clock (off) to about 5 o'clock (max). That might be wrong. I'm at my office and don't have my VT in front of me.
 
#40
brettf, ya got a buttload o' answers huh? :smug:

If I might stray even abit over from the topic. I recently bought a new VT pedal, I agree with many TBers, its pretty sweet. Been using it between amp F1 & passive Jazz 5 or P5.
Now I just placed it on my pedal board which runs it thru a Sadowsky outboard pre, into the front of a Neopak. Including the VT that's now like 3 preez' in a row; 4 if I were to use one of my active basses.

I use about 3-4 different settings on the VT, one of JimmyM's, and 2 I've sorta created myself, both with mids really cut. Seems to work with the P5 pretty well.

I keep the Neopak mostly flat, gain-9:00/10:00, volume(s) knob-noon to 1:00; Bass/mids about 1:00. The Sad pre, volume dimed, bass-about 1:00 or 2:00, treble 1:00. And it seems the VT sounds best when I have the Neopak scoop button engaged(?)

Just wondering if this is just too many preez in a row? I know its' pretty scooped but it works. Tone knobs on Jazz5/P5, helps abit. I saw abit of clip on the o/l of the Neopak, when I punched the P5, backed the amps' gain a touch and it stopped.

Otherwise it sounds pretty darn nice. If I watch and listen for clipping, any issues running this pedal in this way? Hope OP got/gets some usefull answers as well. Good, helpful thread so far.
 

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