Wal Bass Club.

[s_wood]

A couple of observations...

A bass is worth what the market will pay for it, and Wals have been selling recently pretty quickly in the $7K (US) range. That’s what the market says they are worth.

Also, in my experience the prices for used “boutique” basses that that are in excellent to mint condition increase as the the prices for a new instrument increases. Every time Wal raises its prices, the used price goes up, too. That’s what’s happening here.

 

[Toolmybass]

I currently have five 5 strings, so want to let one go, and at less than the current batch of high priced ones. If anyone is looking its my Feb '86 maple Mk2, one of the prototypes. The one that went to Mark Smith, so its toured the world and looks the part and still a killer workhorse.

Is this the one you got back last year?

 

[dhagopian]

I think the market is largely driven by the time it takes Wal to build a new order, now 3 years which is frankly way too long.

If the queue time is three years to get a new order, that means that wal simply does not have the resources it needs to produce basses in a more reasonable timeframe which also means it’s production is quite limited relative to its demand. So time equals supply and demand in this equation. Then add to that the value of time and the fact that if you order a new one your money is tied up for three years with no instrument in hand.

Agree but surely adding staff to cut build time would also increase price...

 

[MOSCOWBASS]

In 1986 I bought a new Wal mk1 for £750. Inflation calculator says this would be about £2200 now

 

[Toolmybass]

In 1986 I bought a new Wal mk1 for £750. Inflation calculator says this would be about £2200 nowView attachment 3696394

Those inflation calculators are rubbish for musical instruments.

They are also at least $13,000 off for the average of a new car. for the same time span.(As an example)

 

[mikeswals]

Those inflation calculators are rubbish for musical instruments.

They are also at least $13,000 off for the average of a new car. for the same time span.(As an example)

Yup many costs have to be figured in all aspects.

Sterling Ball (Ernie Ball Musimcan) once said he had to go into bidding wars over birdseye and flamed maples against automobile manufacturers also buying it for their interior trim pieces.

 

[2112]

Agree but surely adding staff to cut build time would also increase price...

Not necessarily. The increase in potential supply would be likely to increase orders, which could offset and perhaps more than negate the demand, resulting in net decrease in price.

However, some concerns I do have are: what happens if you've got all this time and money tied up waiting on a brand-new Wal and then something happens to the company before delivery? Not only is your money tied up, you are losing the potential value of it over those 30 months. And 30 months is quite a long time for your money to be socked away in someone else's control waiting for something to go south. You have to consider these kinds of practicalities when tying up a pantload of cash like that, especially if you can't afford to lose said pantload.

 

[Toolmybass]

Not necessarily. The increase in potential supply would be likely to increase orders, which could offset and perhaps more than negate the demand, resulting in net decrease in price.

However, some concerns I do have are: what happens if you've got all this time and money tied up waiting on a brand-new Wal and then something happens to the company before delivery? Not only is your money tied up, you are losing the potential value of it over those 30 months. And 30 months is quite a long time for your money to be socked away in someone else's control waiting for something to go south. You have to consider these kinds of practicalities when tying up a pantload of cash like that, especially if you can't afford to lose said pantload.

You could also look at it.....If your not in a financial posistion to commit to half of a pantload (to start) and you're worried about that company going under....then stick to used, until you're in a financial posistion to not worry about it.

 

[2112]

You could also look at it.....If your not in a financial posistion to commit to half of a pantload (to start) and you're worried about that company going under....then stick to used, until you're in a financial posistion to not worry about it.

Yup... pretty much where I was going with that.

 

[MOSCOWBASS]

Those inflation calculators are rubbish for musical instruments.

They are also at least $13,000 off for the average of a new car. for the same time span.(As an example)

Its pretty close for an American Pbass in the UK. I bought a new one in 1976 for £220, they're now about £1500 in the UK

 

[Toolmybass]

Its pretty close for an American Pbass in the UK. I bought a new one in 1976 for £220, they're now about £1500 in the UK

Sorry...didn't think i had to mention the obvious on a super mass produced bass that really doesnt fit into this Wal convo/comparison

 

[rogerbmiller]

Agree but surely adding staff to cut build time would also increase price...

Not if that additional overhead was offset by producing and selling more basses each year. Think about how many people don’t order Wals because of the wait time. I have no idea how many they even make in a given year but if they sold just one more each month that would be over $100,000 in additional revenue for example. Fodera doesn’t have that many luthiers working at the shop and the wait time for a Fodera custom is down to 5 months. And they sell a lot of basses each year.

 

[dhagopian]

So why don't they do it? Can't find the right person?

 

[LowEndHum]

Really makes you think what will happen to Wal when Paul announces his retirement. That's partially why I ordered my Wal 2 years ago.

 

[Les Fret]

Really makes you think what will happen to Wal when Paul announces his retirement. That's partially why I ordered my Wal 2 years ago.

Good question. No idea what will happen. I hope he doesn't sell it to a big name brand or anything. I don't think he will cause they had that opportunity a long time ago already.

With such a long waiting time he can ask any price he wants now. Personally I would stop taking orders and first finish all the basses from the waiting list and then take new orders again.

 

[mikeswals]

Fodera doesn’t have that many luthiers working at the shop and the wait time for a Fodera custom is down to 5 months. And they sell a lot of basses each year.

How many Foderas can be made a year if it was only Vinny and Joey building them?
I've only seen video of their workshop and its much bigger than the Wal workshop, its really tight in there (been there).

But Fodera also uses ready-made electronics; even if its their spec, its still pre-made by the vendor.

 

[rogerbmiller]

How many Foderas can be made a year if it was only Vinny and Joey building them?
I've only seen video of their workshop and its much bigger than the Wal workshop, its really tight in there (been there).

But Fodera also uses ready-made electronics; even if its their spec, its still pre-made by the vendor.

When it was just Joey and Vinnie the wait time was 39 months so not many. And consequently a lot of people who wanted Fodera didn’t order them because that was an unacceptably long wait time. When they upped production capacity they started selling way more basses.

And while they do use ready made electronics now, their bridges have always been proprietary but outsourced as were their proprietary PUP designs over the years. Not sure how Wal does it but this makes sense ie if your specialty is woodwork, stick to that and outsource the rest (electronics, hardware) to specialists in that area. This seems to work well
For them.

 

[mikeswals]

Not sure how Wal does it but this makes sense ie if your specialty is woodwork, stick to that and outsource the rest (electronics, hardware) to specialists in that area. This seems to work well

Wal builds all of their electronics in house. So yeah, winding their own multi coil pickups, and soldering each component onto blank circuit boards. Also their bridge frames come in rough cast from the foundry, but they have to drill and tap their own holes and threads, and then send the bridge frames back out for powder coating. Likewise, all of their hardware doesnt arrive plated, it is raw because they have their own thread sizes and plating color hue, so they only send out small handful batches for the upcoming bases to be plated. So they'll send out enough chrome screws and saddles and pickup poles enough to do maybe five or six basses at a time. Same for gold hardware only done in even smaller handful batches because they have their own specific gold shade, so all the hardware must match.
While there, I wanted to buy new gold pickup mounting screws for one of my 5 strings...they didnt have any spares. I had to wait 3 months for the next gold batch to be sent to the plating shop.

Paul wont outsourse the electronics, ever. Thats kept close knit.

 

[rogerbmiller]

Wal builds all of their electronics in house. So yeah, winding their own multi coil pickups, and soldering each component onto blank circuit boards. Also their bridge frames come in rough cast from the foundry, but they have to drill and tap their own holes and threads, and then send the bridge frames back out for powder coating. Likewise, all of their hardware doesnt arrive plated, it is raw because they have their own thread sizes and plating color hue, so they only send out small handful batches for the upcoming bases to be plated. So they'll send out enough chrome screws and saddles and pickup poles enough to do maybe five or six basses at a time. Same for gold hardware only done in even smaller handful batches because they have their own specific gold shade, so all the hardware must match.
While there, I wanted to buy new gold pickup mounting screws for one of my 5 strings...they didnt have any spares. I had to wait 3 months for the next gold batch to be sent to the plating shop.

Paul wont outsourse the electronics, ever. Thats kept close knit.

Interesting. Makes sense as their electronics are a huge part of the secret sauce.

 

[rogerbmiller]

Unrelated to wait times, I went into my magic closet last night and spent some time with this beauty. My ProIe fretless.

I just bought the Pro fretted neck that was on reverb and wanted to get a little fretless time in before swapping necks to change things up a bit.

These Pros have such a magic to them. Thick tone and pure joy to play.