Wants to be payed for practices

[Brad Johnson]

I've seen this scenario many times. I'm betting he doesn't get out the house often. If you're lucky enough to get paid for rehearsals and also have an excellent paying gig, that is fantastic and I'm probably jealous of that fact! LOL We have folks on that level here but they aren't gigging that often or are gigging for that $100 per. Ain't nobody getting paid for rehearsals around here. Plus the really good bands rarely rehearse anyways unless they are adding a few new tunes. Been in my current band (main band) for 2 years now. We rehearsed regularly for the first 3-4 months. Maybe 2-3 more times since. Gigs pay well though.

Why would you even bet that? Hell, I'll take that bet, for me. Remember, your situation in your location is not universal.
Far from it.
If you work cheap, a funny thing often happens... many expect for you to keep working cheap. I'll do the occasional gig like that but my primary focus is getting and keeping gigs that pay very well. On a regular basis. Am I playing five nights a week? Nope. Because I can do less work and make more playing two dates that week.

 

[Tony In Philly]

Take a deep breath, Brad.

 

[Brad Johnson]

First off dude, I AM in his league, I just choose to make my living in the real world. Him practicing with us is so he does not make ME look bad on stage.

You said he nailed it. And now you're worried about him making you look bad. This is confusing. Did you leave something out?

 

[lordradish]

Wow, the only thing I find at all odd about this is the reaction to the drummer's request. The drummer has expectations for remuneration. The folks benefiting from the service are free to accept or reject those expectations. In the end, the employer and employee are responsible for negotiation the terms of the relationship and honoring those terms once agreed upon.

You'd think this is one of the easiest things to get.

To be fair, though, there's such a diverse population here on TGP, some people simply don't live in a place where they run across people like that. In others, it's not. I don't balk at it, and I've expected and gotten it myself, several times.

If I'm in a band for mostly financial reasons (which is what a cover band would certainly be, for me, at least - just not my thing), time is money. I don't want to spend hours rehearsing things that everyone should be doing on their own. Maybe just one, occasionally, to make sure everyone's on the same page, but, as I get older (and more competent), I'm less inclined to spend time on music that's not my own and not get some sort of compensation for it.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Take a deep breath, Brad.

I'm breathing just fine. Were you when you called this stranger a jerk?


This thread is sad and funny at the same time. It really explains so much about the woes so many seem to face in the music world. Because many don't treat it like a business.

 

[two fingers]

I guess by definition, he is a Pro because this is his PROfession. I consider a " Pro " being somone who is touring with major acts, not someone who just doesn't want to work a normal 8 to 5 job LOL. You speak as though you have experience with this, are you a " Pro " or " Amateur ".

Not even close. I was a professional bass player for almost two decades. I never "toured". I played lots of corporate and private gigs, with just enough clubs and festivals to promote the band. We all did fine money wise (especially for younger mostly single guys).

Some corporate band bass players can play circles around some guys doing national tours. Goals and expectations come into play more than talent. Professionalism can't be found at all levels. I play local bars these days. I bring the exact same level of professionalism to those gigs that I brought to $10K corporate gigs.

 

[arbiterusa]

Have any of you guys/gals heard or experience this??

Yep. Gotten it, too. Good guys can ask and get this.

 

[Renaissance]

This thread isn't about the differences between pro and amateur as much as it is about people's perceptions of what everyone else should do IMHO.

 

[pbass2]

OK, choosing to have a day job by default puts you in a different league. It makes you a hobbyist, and it doesn't matter how good you are, the fact that you get to pick and choose the two gigs you play every month means you are in the hobbyist camp. So your abilities may be amazing, but unless you are retired from a full-time music gig, don't compare yourself to someone who plays for a living. You do not have the stage experience or any other level of experience to put yourself in that league. Full stop.

I work with some amazing players. They divide themselves into two camps. There are the people who are seasoned stage musicians, who know exactly what to do to keep a crowd on their feet all night long, and there are the people who do not understand or respond to subtle but traditional stage cues from a BL about what needs to happen when and where. The latter does not necessarily mean these people have not been on large stages, but it means they don't have a certain set of experiences where the flow of things on stage was not hand fed to them. They are all good players but I'll take the former over the latter every time, if I'm given a say, because they have the street cred to handle any situation.

Telling us that you have a day job and you think he's going to make you look bad on stage when he came in completely prepared and that's his only job? Give me a freaking break.

+1,000,000 pretty much everything right here . . .

 

[Rayjay]

There have been many gigs I have gotten payed where it only covered gas. I love playing in front of people and making them mosh or dance, in many ways that’s kind of payment in itself.

Ding ding ding! Say no more bro. This guy is out of your league. Please understand, I’m not shaming you for that. I’m just drawing a distinction between his expectations and your expectations. Unfortunately, professional musicians have to sort through a lot of amateur people who aren’t depending on the money to do business transactions that turn out not to be business transactions after all. This is the classic example. I’m sorry this thread turned into something you didn’t intend it to, but try to use this as a learning experience. Aloha!

 

[lat]

During his conversation with the BL. Was he supposed to have that conversation the day of the audition? The BL didn't.

Auditions are job interviews. And much like job interviews they aren't necessarily a one way street. He was checking out the band too... unless they didn't play and just watched him. After doing that he had more to go on as far as evaluating the situation. He had a follow-up and discusses details.

That's normal.

People who deal with tight finances often have difficulty thinking outside of that box. Look at how many will state without hesitation what they wouldn't buy or what they wouldn't pay or do... based on their world. Not looking beyond that. So the indignation over $75 is more about the band's budget than his request IMO. He could've asked for more. I didn't see any hint that he was making a demand.

Yep, doesn't change the fact that there was an expectation gap. That can happen from either, or both, sides...

 

[nnnnnn]

expects to be payed $75 per practice for gas money

That's a lot of gas to get to and from one rehearsal - does he live in another state, or is he fuelling a helicopter?

If he wants to be paid for his time that's one thing, and you can either agree or not, but if he's claiming he needs that much for gas he either lives hundreds of kilometres away or he's lying and hoping you don't do the maths.

 

[twinfallsbass]

Ding ding ding! Say no more bro. This guy is out of your league. Please understand, I’m not shaming you for that. I’m just drawing a distinction between his expectations and your expectations. Unfortunately, professional musicians have to sort through a lot of amateur people who aren’t depending on the money to do business transactions that turn out not to be business transactions after all. This is the classic example. I’m sorry this thread turned into something you didn’t intend it to, but try to use this as a learning experience. Aloha!

I guess you are really sure about your statement since you said it twice :-/
He’s not out of my league Ding ding ding

 

[Brad Johnson]

Around here you basically get one rehearsal for free for a paid gig. If you need more rehearsals for your project you'll need to figure out some type of compensation

And everybody has a right to set their price. BLs discuss prices privately per musician. Just because you're 'in a band' doesn't mean everyone should get equal share.

I've lost track of how many one time gigs have fallen through and I end up with nothing to show for the work I put in. Travel, learning new music, rehearsals. Zip. So I don't do that anymore. I look out for me.

That all for one band mindset does not take reality into consideration. All things aren't always equal. Some people are more committed than others. Some people are cool with getting the same cut for playing, providing and driving the band vehicle, providing and operating the pa, booking the gig as the rhythm guitarist. I have no problem with the for the love of the game folks, just don't assign negativity to the people who've seen everyone else make money off of them while they struggle.

 

[Steve Helland]

He's not being a jerk. He's being honest about his terms. If you guys aren't prepared to honor his terms, just turn him down and keep looking.

He's not obligated to join your band under YOUR terms. You aren't obligated to hire him under HIS terms.

So what's the problem? You can either live with his terms or you can't. If you can't, TELL him you can't and keep auditioning drummer.

Simple.

Exactly. All of these comments are interesting, but they ultimately miss the real point--which is that the terms should have been discussed ahead of time. There are paid pros and there are hobbyists...why wasn't that established to start with? Would have saved everyone time and confusion.

 

[Rayjay]

I guess you are really sure about your statement since you said it twice :-/
He’s not out of my league Ding ding ding

Yes he is. You don’t want to pay him what he’s asking. I’m not even bringing up how are you and hang with them on stage, which I know nothing about. He is out of your league financially. Do you not see that?

 

[Brad Johnson]

That's a lot of gas to get to and from one rehearsal - does he live in another state, or is he fuelling a helicopter?

If he wants to be paid for his time that's one thing, and you can either agree or not, but if he's claiming he needs that much for gas he either lives hundreds of kilometres away or he's lying and hoping you don't do the maths.

Does what he wants it for really matter? He's going to spend it however he sees fit. He could say it's for the Wayward Kitty orphanage. Or spoons. Some people really like spoons.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Exactly. All of these comments are interesting, but they ultimately miss the real point--which is that the terms should have been discussed ahead of time. There are paid pros and there are hobbyists...why wasn't that established to start with? Would have saved everyone time and confusion.

We have no idea what expectations were set by anyone up front.

 

[Brad Johnson]

It was definitely NOT discussed at the audition, if it was, I would have expressed feelings at that time.

What were the expectations for the gig? How was the band sold to him?

 

[twinfallsbass]

Yes he is. You don’t want to pay him what he’s asking. I’m not even bringing up how are you and hang with them on stage, which I know nothing about. He is out of your league financially. Do you not see that?

I saw what he drove to the audition, he is definitely not in my league. As far as music being his only source of income, yes you right, he has me beat hands down.