Maybe it's just me, but these two posts seem to be coming from completely opposite ends of this argument's spectrum.
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War on Drugs
- Thread starter DagoMaino
- Start date
Maybe it's just me, but these two posts seem to be coming from completely opposite ends of this argument's spectrum.
I would contend that the only aspect that has worked to some extent is in the education aspect... but how much more could that be a focus if the funding was boosted through the taxation of the controlled substances and the dead-weight was lifted off of a sunk prison system and underwater enforcement system.
God forbid we spend money on education, create education related jobs, and build a societal value in EDUCATION!
God forbid we spend money on education, create education related jobs, and build a societal value in EDUCATION!
This will be hard without getting political, but what you do in the privacy of your own home that does not affect others is fine by me. I may be a tad bit Libertarian, and I am biased as a CA resident with a medical cannabis prescription.
As a member of a small collective, I help out. I know exactly what I'm getting, and it is not in any way contributing to the black market or causing violence. All taxes are paid.
I don't really smoke. I'm trying to cut down then quit cigarettes so I prefer to keep my lungs healthy. However, I do use a topical THC product. I have had two back surgeries for a ruptured disc, so my nerve damage is very, very bad.
I used to get muscle spasms, and was prescribed Valium, Flexeril, Somas, and other pharmaceuticals to deal with it. The THC topical is superior to all of those with zero side effects (you don't get intoxicated at all). However, many others get cards for illegitimate reasons. I don't care as long as they don't drive intoxicated, or put anyone in danger.
As for across the board legalization, I agree with some of what has been said: things like meth and heroin and some other drugs should not be available under any circumstances. Some drugs have no value; they just directly fund crime and wreck lives (I kicked meth over 7 years ago, but some of my friends didn't, and ended up borderline schizophrenic and in jail, or with hepatitis c, or dead).
Some chemicals, if legalized, could diminish organize crime via their wallet. I just don't have the real answer, and I don't know if anyone could claim to have the answer unless such policies pass. And I don't see that happening in the near future. But I will wait and see. Who knows...
Be safe everyone. Know your body and your limits and your values. And please, as a favor to yourself (and me), do NOT even look at meth. I lost years of my life, almost died, and ended up in jails and psychiatric hospitals. I came out okay. You might not. Some people stay hooked for decades, that is if they don't die first.
Obviously this is a touchy subject for me. I don't even drink. Be happy. Be healthy. Be at peace with who you are and strive to better yourself every day any way you can. Carry on.
As a member of a small collective, I help out. I know exactly what I'm getting, and it is not in any way contributing to the black market or causing violence. All taxes are paid.
I don't really smoke. I'm trying to cut down then quit cigarettes so I prefer to keep my lungs healthy. However, I do use a topical THC product. I have had two back surgeries for a ruptured disc, so my nerve damage is very, very bad.
I used to get muscle spasms, and was prescribed Valium, Flexeril, Somas, and other pharmaceuticals to deal with it. The THC topical is superior to all of those with zero side effects (you don't get intoxicated at all). However, many others get cards for illegitimate reasons. I don't care as long as they don't drive intoxicated, or put anyone in danger.
As for across the board legalization, I agree with some of what has been said: things like meth and heroin and some other drugs should not be available under any circumstances. Some drugs have no value; they just directly fund crime and wreck lives (I kicked meth over 7 years ago, but some of my friends didn't, and ended up borderline schizophrenic and in jail, or with hepatitis c, or dead).
Some chemicals, if legalized, could diminish organize crime via their wallet. I just don't have the real answer, and I don't know if anyone could claim to have the answer unless such policies pass. And I don't see that happening in the near future. But I will wait and see. Who knows...
Be safe everyone. Know your body and your limits and your values. And please, as a favor to yourself (and me), do NOT even look at meth. I lost years of my life, almost died, and ended up in jails and psychiatric hospitals. I came out okay. You might not. Some people stay hooked for decades, that is if they don't die first.
Obviously this is a touchy subject for me. I don't even drink. Be happy. Be healthy. Be at peace with who you are and strive to better yourself every day any way you can. Carry on.
There are two reasons for that:
1.) the first post was satire because the person was taking a polarizing position
2.) I don't inhabit a side of the spectrum or polarizing position. I inhabit the middle.
In this topic, I draw a line between what should be illegal and what shouldn't. Marijuana is on the latter and has been a bulk of the "War on Drugs". Harder drugs are grayer.
Part of my "middle" position is attempting to recognize the complexity, rather than a "black and white" position that seems to be all the rage. The same way someone can be anti-drug but pro-legalization.
Ridiculous much? I was referring to drugs and prostitution, nothing else.
I am aware of that. That doesn't mean I can't satire it hyperbolically in lieu of my disagreement that all drugs and sex sales (things I consider to be morally wrong) should be legalized merely for government revenue since both contribute to crime and would still be crimes IMO regardless of their legalization or their illegality. A relatively silly hyperbole but it was fun anyways since whacking someone could become all the rage someday.
I've seen estimates of from 60 to 80K per minute 24/7/365 that the war on drugs is costing the people of America. I've also seen reports claiming 1/3 to 1/2 of that could be saved by legalizing reefer.
About 2 months ago, a rather largish city real close to Birmingham turned out a couple hundred tax payer supported people for a shake and bake meth "lab" found in a local motel room. Every cop and firefighter in town, plus a couple hazardous response teams, 2 full SWAT squads with support vehicles for all this, all of which just stood around rotating on their thumbs while a guy in a white paper coverall went in and cleared the "threat". The estimated cost was 1.5 million dollars for the "safe removal and destruction" of this "lab".
Your tax dollars at work.
About 2 months ago, a rather largish city real close to Birmingham turned out a couple hundred tax payer supported people for a shake and bake meth "lab" found in a local motel room. Every cop and firefighter in town, plus a couple hazardous response teams, 2 full SWAT squads with support vehicles for all this, all of which just stood around rotating on their thumbs while a guy in a white paper coverall went in and cleared the "threat". The estimated cost was 1.5 million dollars for the "safe removal and destruction" of this "lab".
Your tax dollars at work.
LEAP has been around for a long time now. Some actually see the cost of prohibition and the wrong of putting someone in a cage who never hurt or stole from anyone.
I'd reject the idea though that the choices are limited to prohibit or regulate. Freedom is the answer. What's the question?
I'd reject the idea though that the choices are limited to prohibit or regulate. Freedom is the answer. What's the question?
This is an interesting problem because its more than whether or not we can effectively enforce drug laws
Whether it's legal or not - is it something you want to be present/prevalent in your community or society as a whole? I think our country is hugely split here, however much we may seem to be coming to a consensus that its not worth the cost to try(and fail) to enforce it. I want to live where people are allowed to make that choice, and I want to live with people who choose not to abuse drugs. I don't want to live somewhere where it is OK to be methed out. Where does the gov play a role here? I don't know.
Whether it's legal or not - is it something you want to be present/prevalent in your community or society as a whole? I think our country is hugely split here, however much we may seem to be coming to a consensus that its not worth the cost to try(and fail) to enforce it. I want to live where people are allowed to make that choice, and I want to live with people who choose not to abuse drugs. I don't want to live somewhere where it is OK to be methed out. Where does the gov play a role here? I don't know.
What would be the cost if that lab had exploded and killed a bunch of people, but the PD decided to let it slide because "It's just a small lab- it couldn't do much damage"? What if someone nearby had died because of a reaction to the chemicals used for that lab?
Meth is about as hard of a drug as you can get. Worse than alcohol, imo. I don't see any way it can be safely legalized. Marijuana on the other hand? Not a problem. If just hemp alone could be legalized, it could solve a lot of our current economical and environmental problems.
agreed - and the revenue from one can go to fighting the other - tax neutral. Probably not possible, but worth looking into
Wow, no shortage of socialism here. What is it about growing or using pot makes their money ours to spend as we want?
California's medical marijuana laws were/are a catastrophe for the northern part of the state.
Shasta County has now taken over as being the umber one pot growing county in the state, yet over 70% of the population is against it.
That is because the best farm land is located in the north state. All of the gangs from the south created "collectives" to lease property for cultivation in the north state. Shasta County had the greatest increase in felonies in the nation last year. We have the greatest increase in automobile theft in the state. We had no gang activity, now gang activity has increased at a rate unimaginable in the north state only a few years ago. With the gang activity and the crime, we have also seen a boom in heroin and meth use.
Until last month me daughter was afraid to walk to her buss stop, because she had to walk past a grow with armed drug dealers coming and going all the time.
Shasta county is now talking about a permit program for marijuana cultivation. It is going to end up passing. If those cultivating and selling marijuana cannot "police" themselves, it will eventually fall to the citizens.
I do not care about marijuana in and of itself. I care about the crime and the gang activity it has brought to the north state. legalizing it will not stop cultivation up here.
Shasta County has now taken over as being the umber one pot growing county in the state, yet over 70% of the population is against it.
That is because the best farm land is located in the north state. All of the gangs from the south created "collectives" to lease property for cultivation in the north state. Shasta County had the greatest increase in felonies in the nation last year. We have the greatest increase in automobile theft in the state. We had no gang activity, now gang activity has increased at a rate unimaginable in the north state only a few years ago. With the gang activity and the crime, we have also seen a boom in heroin and meth use.
Until last month me daughter was afraid to walk to her buss stop, because she had to walk past a grow with armed drug dealers coming and going all the time.
Shasta county is now talking about a permit program for marijuana cultivation. It is going to end up passing. If those cultivating and selling marijuana cannot "police" themselves, it will eventually fall to the citizens.
I do not care about marijuana in and of itself. I care about the crime and the gang activity it has brought to the north state. legalizing it will not stop cultivation up here.
First and foremost, sometimes they shoot back, which is why the SWAT team arrived. There was a guy in my town who got high on meth and was randomly gunning down people who were outside before a cop put him down.
Second, yes, SAFE REMOVAL. There are often a lot of toxic and volatile chemicals involved with meth labs. This requires highly trained staff to safely handle chemicals that could literally explode. They also have to be careful since meth addicts can get paranoid and set booby traps. These removed chemicals need to be sent places to be neutralized and safely disposed of. The process is quite costly and the guy in the white suit generally doesn't make a ton of money.
He's right about tobacco but smack & weed & tobacco & alcohol aren't the same; you can't handle them all the same way. no way.
We incarcerate peaceful people all the time. Why not incarcerate more?
Which way should that needke move?
I'n in favor of doing the moral thing not more evil.
Which way should that needke move?
I'n in favor of doing the moral thing not more evil.
