• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Washington Redskins name

#22
blue4 said:
Seems to me like the tribe would be ok. Be like calling the team "The William and Mary Towns." Don't see a problem with Braves, Seminoles, Blackhawks, or Chiefs either. Those seem to be actual names, or terms of respect.
Click to expand...

Of course, that's what we thought. "Tribe" is a very generic word that doesn't refer to any particular group of people. Plus, it seems like the connotations are mainly positive, e.g., group cohesion and "oneness." Adding a couple of feathers to it, however, evidently turned it into some kind of ethnic slur.
 
#23
ImNotJoel said:
IMHO unless your fully Native American I don't think it's your place to say if the names offensive or not.
Click to expand...

That's like saying you can't call out racist behavior unless you are the target of the racism.

Gorn Captain said:
I did not know that. I don't know. It's not my place to complain about it or say it's ok, but it's not like the teams are called "The Dirty Redskins", or the "Thieving Braves". That would be very offensive, but I can understand how Native Americans are against the names as they are.
Click to expand...

That's confusing to me. Why should "Dirty" be placed in front of an already derogatory term in order for it to be over the top?

Of course it's harmful and racist. If the team was named on behalf of people who were kidnapped from their country and brought here for labor purposes and was called the ______skins, would that be OK? Maybe it would be best for the Washington NFL team to discuss with actual representatives of the ethnicity in question what terms can be used to convey the message sent by naming a team after Native Americans.
 
#24
Immigrant said:
That's like saying you can't call out racist behavior unless you are the target of the racism.



That's confusing to me. Why should "Dirty" be placed in front of an already derogatory term in order for it to be over the top?

Of course it's harmful and racist. If the team was named on behalf of people who were kidnapped from their country and brought here for labor purposes and was called the ______skins, would that be OK? Maybe it would be best for the Washington NFL team to discuss with actual representatives of the ethnicity in question what terms can be used to convey the message sent by naming a team after Native Americans.
Click to expand...

I don't think that the team is willing to discuss anything.
 
#27
The founder of the Redskins, by the way, was an intractable racist. And I believe they were the absolute last team in the NFL to sign an African American player. Invalid Link Removed
 
  • Like
Reactions: matante
#28
Same thing happened to my alma mater, University of North Dakota. We were most recently called the "Fighting Sioux". The name was actually "OK'd" by the local sioux tribes (they had some sort of blessing ceremony) and all was good for a long time. Our mascot was drawn by a Sioux artist, lots of support and such.

Then a local Sioux group started complaining it was racist and after a 7 year battle the NCAA forced us to drop the name.

I can see it both ways too but man.. Going from a name that was supported from the beginning by the namesake and then suddenly someone decided it was racist..
 
#29
bassist11 said:
Same thing happened to my alma mater, University of North Dakota. We were most recently called the "Fighting Sioux". The name was actually "OK'd" by the local sioux tribes (they had some sort of blessing ceremony) and all was good for a long time. Our mascot was drawn by a Sioux artist, lots of support and such.

Then a local Sioux group started complaining it was racist and after a 7 year battle the NCAA forced us to drop the name.

I can see it both ways too but man.. Going from a name that was supported from the beginning by the namesake and then suddenly someone decided it was racist..
Click to expand...


What?? I didn't know this. What's the name now?
 
#30
bassist11 said:
I can see it both ways too but man.. Going from a name that was supported from the beginning by the namesake and then suddenly someone decided it was racist..
Click to expand...

They call that changing times. It's not as though no other terms describing ethnicity were acceptable then later deemed unacceptable or anything.

Is that term used in conversation? Could someone walk up to a Native American and say "Pleased to meet you. I've never met a redskin in person."? If you answer yes, rethinking your attitudes is necessary. If the answer is no, it shouldn't be okay to name a pro football team that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HolmeBass, matante, pacojas and 1 other person
#31
bassist11 said:
Same thing happened to my alma mater, University of North Dakota. We were most recently called the "Fighting Sioux". The name was actually "OK'd" by the local sioux tribes (they had some sort of blessing ceremony) and all was good for a long time. Our mascot was drawn by a Sioux artist, lots of support and such.

Then a local Sioux group started complaining it was racist and after a 7 year battle the NCAA forced us to drop the name.

I can see it both ways too but man.. Going from a name that was supported from the beginning by the namesake and then suddenly someone decided it was racist..
Click to expand...

I'm sitting here drinking Sioux City Sarsaparilla. obviously racist.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Eric Perry
#32
bassist11 said:
Same thing happened to my alma mater, University of North Dakota. We were most recently called the "Fighting Sioux". The name was actually "OK'd" by the local sioux tribes (they had some sort of blessing ceremony) and all was good for a long time. Our mascot was drawn by a Sioux artist, lots of support and such.

Then a local Sioux group started complaining it was racist and after a 7 year battle the NCAA forced us to drop the name.

I can see it both ways too but man.. Going from a name that was supported from the beginning by the namesake and then suddenly someone decided it was racist..
Click to expand...

Wouldn't that be like calling a team "the fighting texans?" Doesn't seem to be in the same vein as the redskins.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Darth Handsome
#33
Odd that in today's world redskin would be so offensive as to cause such a stir, yet the term white trash is used more today than at any other time I can recall in my life. At lease the word "poor" has been dropped from it, mostly anyway.

Not advocating for or against anything, just saying the only way words can become hurtful is if someone takes offence from them. If you allow words to hurt you, they will, if you don't allow words to hurt you, they won't.

As for the OP being compared to the nazis for failing to ride a particular bandwagon, that's just a product of our political process where the goal is to ruin the reputation of anyone who fails to agree with one's preferred position. This actually has it orgin in our civil court system, where barring the need for any solid evidence of wrongdoing, it has evolved into little more than an exercise in character assassination. A contest to see who can find (or manufacture) the most dirt on their opponent(s). It's no longer about finding the truth, unless the truth is measured by who winds up with the least amount of mud stuck to them once the dust settles.

Seems more than ironic and disingenuous that someone advocating for limiting the use of "harmful" words would even have the word nazi in their vocabulary, but such is the nature of the "if you are not with us you are against us", herd mentality.

Sounds like it's basically a group of shallow clods advocating for their position by accusing anyone who fails to support them of being shallow clods.

Hello pot, kettle here. Nice to meet you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sparkyfender2 and ThatBassistDude
#37
fhm555 said:
Odd that in today's world redskin would be so offensive as to cause such a stir, yet the term white trash is used more today than at any other time I can recall in my life. At lease the word "poor" has been dropped from it, mostly anyway.

Not advocating for or against anything, just saying the only way words can become hurtful is if someone takes offence from them. If you allow words to hurt you, they will, if you don't allow words to hurt you, they won't.

As for the OP being compared to the nazis for failing to ride a particular bandwagon, that's just a product of our political process where the goal is to ruin the reputation of anyone who fails to agree with one's preferred position. This actually has it orgin in our civil court system, where barring the need for any solid evidence of wrongdoing, it has evolved into little more than an exercise in character assassination. A contest to see who can find (or manufacture) the most dirt on their opponent(s). It's no longer about finding the truth, unless the truth is measured by who winds up with the least amount of mud stuck to them once the dust settles.

Seems more than ironic and disingenuous that someone advocating for limiting the use of "harmful" words would even have the word nazi in their vocabulary, but such is the nature of the "if you are not with us you are against us", herd mentality.

Sounds like it's basically a group of shallow clods advocating for their position by accusing anyone who fails to support them of being shallow clods.

Hello pot, kettle here. Nice to meet you.
Click to expand...

Yes, I was so caught off guard by it I wasn't really able to put together a decent response. Debating is not my strong suit. I'm always, "I should have said this!"
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back