wow! those clips are incredible! really, really gorgeous, swinging, bluesy, inventive playing from both of them...
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Double Bass Wasn't RED a GREAT Player?
- Thread starter powermans
- Start date
Thanks to Youtube, some of you can finally hear and see what i've been talking about all these years.
Red Mitchell is THE MAN. I really don't know what else to say. There are very few bassist that I could just listen to walk at 120BPM all day and be totally mesmerized. Incredible.
This is for PW and has to do with clarification on Red Mitchell's alleged $10,000 bow. I misunderstood some of the comments I've heard. While doing a cleanup I came across an interview Gene Lees did with Red Mitchell upon his return from Sweden. Red was trying to impress upon the interviewer the individuality of bows (Red said they are like unique, like women). Red then spoke of Gary Karr's 1611 Amati given to him by Mrs. Koussevitsky. Then Red said "he paid $10,000 for his bow but got the Amati free." Anyway, just for the record it was Gary Karr's bow Red was referring to. I thought you would be interested in this being the Red Mitchell freak that you are.
Interesting Alavakian. The years I knew Red he was playing German. He was bowing almost all his solos. But in that interview with Gene, Red was using a French style bow by Neurnbeger. I know Gary uses German style. I can't believe Red went to French, much more than I can believe that Gary had a French bow to even sell.
Were you the guy who went to Julliard with Red? I just noticed that you, in your profile, studied with Zimmerman, or are you just naming him as one of your inflluences?
As you probably know from the Lees interview, Red and Fred didn't get along.
I'm confused by all this, but any Red trivia is always enjoyable for me. Thanks man......
I just googled that interview, gonna read it later. I love the way Red talks, just the rhythm and the way his mind works. I wish I'd met him!
John Goldsby
Supporting Member
- Mar 4, 2003
- 1,172
- 2,160
- Disclosures
- Bassist @ WDR Big Band Cologne, Discover Double Bass, Conservatorium Maastricht, NL
Hey Paul,
Maybe you can clear something up for me about Red and his bow. (Maybe you have already mentioned this in a past post.) He told me sometime in the mid-80s that he had a favorite bow in the '70s, but that it was stolen during a break at a gig in Sweden. He said he loved that bow so much, that after that, he couldn't find one to replace it -- so he just stopped using the bow altogether. Pretty extreme, but pretty Red-like. Is that the story you have heard?
John
Maybe you can clear something up for me about Red and his bow. (Maybe you have already mentioned this in a past post.) He told me sometime in the mid-80s that he had a favorite bow in the '70s, but that it was stolen during a break at a gig in Sweden. He said he loved that bow so much, that after that, he couldn't find one to replace it -- so he just stopped using the bow altogether. Pretty extreme, but pretty Red-like. Is that the story you have heard?
John
Of course I know that's very extreme, but you know Red. John, that broke his heart and he found in that bow the ability to get that tenor sound of Gene Ammomns. I have an
lp with
Guido Manusardi and Red. Guido's an Italian pianst and they did this LP in Stockholm I guess. Red plays " God Bless the Child " with the bow with those typical re-harmonizations that John knows Red well for. I think it may be one the most soulful things i've ever heard.
And yeah that's the story told to Geen Lees in this interview.
How anybody who could play like that and then just quit is unbelieveable, but as you said thats Red for ya.
really Red-like.
Red said this drunk guy just kept grabbing the bow to
'conduct' the band. Red said " i'm not mad at you, but if you do that again i'll kill you " When Red came back to the stand, the bow was gone.
lp with
Guido Manusardi and Red. Guido's an Italian pianst and they did this LP in Stockholm I guess. Red plays " God Bless the Child " with the bow with those typical re-harmonizations that John knows Red well for. I think it may be one the most soulful things i've ever heard.
And yeah that's the story told to Geen Lees in this interview.
How anybody who could play like that and then just quit is unbelieveable, but as you said thats Red for ya.
really Red-like.
Red said this drunk guy just kept grabbing the bow to
'conduct' the band. Red said " i'm not mad at you, but if you do that again i'll kill you " When Red came back to the stand, the bow was gone.
PW - Yes, I studied bass with Fred Zimmerman from 1946-49.
The school (Julliard) required that all German bow students also learn French bow. A lot of us rebelled and Zimmerman was sympathetic. Zimmerman was very friendly, good sense of humor. Anselme Fortier, the French bow teacher was just the opposite. He'd scare the sh..t out of us. It was a group session which included Stuart Sankey, Alphonse Strazza, Anthony Ciarello, Ed Kay, Keith Mitchell. We all went and purchased French bows (I still have mine).
As far as Red Mitchell goes, I did not get to know him as well as the others in the group. He didn't stay around as long as we did. And you are right about him and Zimmerman not getting along. Knowing Zimmerman, he would lose interest in any student that did not go along with his program.
The school (Julliard) required that all German bow students also learn French bow. A lot of us rebelled and Zimmerman was sympathetic. Zimmerman was very friendly, good sense of humor. Anselme Fortier, the French bow teacher was just the opposite. He'd scare the sh..t out of us. It was a group session which included Stuart Sankey, Alphonse Strazza, Anthony Ciarello, Ed Kay, Keith Mitchell. We all went and purchased French bows (I still have mine).
As far as Red Mitchell goes, I did not get to know him as well as the others in the group. He didn't stay around as long as we did. And you are right about him and Zimmerman not getting along. Knowing Zimmerman, he would lose interest in any student that did not go along with his program.
Maybe not totally related to the topic, but about a year and half ago or maybe more I was at this restaurant which no longer has jazz, but I was watching a set and during the break a few of the musicians who knew me came over to talk (I think it was Randy Porter and Tom Wakeling if I remember right), and a lady had been sitting at the table next to us. She had come back into the room from the bathroom and the guys obviously knew her and there was this great conversation going on. So as the lady gets up and leaves the table Tom looks over at me and he says, you know that's Red Mitchell wife right?
Then come to find out she had been responsible for some great players coming to do clinics at our school like a duo of Mundell Lowe and Jim Ferguson. Also Gene Bertoncini came and that was great. At the time I hadn't really known much about Keith's playing and while I know a little more I still don't have enough of his work and haven't dived into his playing enough. I like what I've heard. I have the live at port townsend album and I really like some of his ideas.
Also a player around here does the fifths thing. Tim Gilson, tunes in fifths and he told me it was the wave of the future. He plays great and it's so unique.
Then come to find out she had been responsible for some great players coming to do clinics at our school like a duo of Mundell Lowe and Jim Ferguson. Also Gene Bertoncini came and that was great. At the time I hadn't really known much about Keith's playing and while I know a little more I still don't have enough of his work and haven't dived into his playing enough. I like what I've heard. I have the live at port townsend album and I really like some of his ideas.
Also a player around here does the fifths thing. Tim Gilson, tunes in fifths and he told me it was the wave of the future. He plays great and it's so unique.
I just got out the LP "Guido Manusardi Meets Red Mitchell" and listened to Blue Sleepy People, Bye Bye Blackbird and God Bless The Child. UNBELIEVABLE!! Red's ability with the bow was just like everything else he did.....AMAZING and BEAUTIFUL.
So how does everyone feel about early vs. late Red Mitchell? I like the early stuff a lot, but the late work is where he really developed such an indvidual voice.
It is clear he was always a fine bass player with fantastic technique.
It is clear he was always a fine bass player with fantastic technique.
Red in his later years was totally unique as far as I can tell. He was playing the bass like a piano or a classical guitar or something. Melodic as all heck but unlinear, somehow, with all that harmony he gets in there with the multi-stop stuff.
If I could get my guitar / bass duo stuff anywhere near as interwoven and interactive as Red and Jim Hall do, I'd be a happy man...
If I could get my guitar / bass duo stuff anywhere near as interwoven and interactive as Red and Jim Hall do, I'd be a happy man...
damonsmith: I'm located in Alameda. I do not teach anymore, I haven't taught in years, but I can steer you to an excellent teacher: Glen Richmond 523-5128. Good luck.
I wasn't actually looking for a teacher at the momment, I just wanted some of that particular history. I studied some with Turetzkey, he studied with David Walter who studied with Zimmerman.
Anyway, I am in Oakland, hopefully I will get to hear you play sometime.
If I could get any aspect of my life as happening as that duo I'd be a happy man!
That duo is incredible. They are not in a hurry, and at slow tempos they are just deadly. It has all the attention to every little detail that fine improvised music should have.
Even with Red Using that terrible string charger pick up that is on the cover!
That's the magnetic pick-up mounted at the end of the FB right?
Red was always experimenting . The last time I saw him it was just the Underwood and the Fishman.
I love the early stuff with Hamp Hawes with gut strings. You could write a tune, which Red often did, off of any of his solos.
I also love the 5 string period with Red Mitchell Harold Land quintet.
For my $, the Jim Hall/Red stuff is the definitive Red stuff. Alot of my opinion about the Jim/Red stuff is based on Jim's abilities as an accompanist.......
Yeah, it is clear he is special on the early records, his own are fantasic. His intonation is so clear and crisp and his lines are more melodic than other bass players at the time.
My Favorite is still the Duo with Konitz followed by the ones with Marsh.
the Jim Hall stuff is pretty amazing as I said above.
My Favorite is still the Duo with Konitz followed by the ones with Marsh.
the Jim Hall stuff is pretty amazing as I said above.
