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Double Bass Wasn't RED a GREAT Player?
- Thread starter powermans
- Start date
Yep, but Red's arco statement of " God Bless The Child " has a typical Red reharm, and just DRIPS with soul.
Janette, if Red recorded "Leaves", I prolly have it. I'm in the process of a big move and my music is in storage...don't know what kind of time frame you're looking at for your project. I'll give Red's widow, Diane, a call. I need an excuse to do that anyway. She's very helpfull in all things Red.
I have to admit I've never studied on Red Mitchell. Partly it's the fifths thing. I keep thinking it's hard enough for me to play well in fourths, the last thing I need is a whole new technique to learn. Dumb, I know, but there it is
How much did his note choices change when he went to fifths? Are there recordings pre and post fifths tuning that I could check out?
My teacher had shifted over to fifths tuning, and he said Red Mitchell was the reason. I've always wanted to try it out, but also as mentioned I'm a little scared of relearning the fingerboard
How much did his note choices change when he went to fifths? Are there recordings pre and post fifths tuning that I could check out?
My teacher had shifted over to fifths tuning, and he said Red Mitchell was the reason. I've always wanted to try it out, but also as mentioned I'm a little scared of relearning the fingerboard
The quick answer is that there are tons of recordings with both tunings. There are dates he did as a leader for Contemporary Records, Atlantic etc. Many more as a sideman for Hampton Hawes, Jimmy Witherspoon, Jim Hall,Andre Previn, Barney Kessel, etc. etc. All of them while tuned in fourths. There are many many more for Concord, Capri, Enja,Timeless etc. tuned in fifths.
His conception of soloing and accompanying changed when he retuned his bass. The double-stops in that tuning allowed him to play tenths and sixths with relative ease there by allowing him to insert chords into his walking and accompaniment in general. I have records where he played a melody while chordally accompanying himself very effectively and completely. Red incorporated these new techniques into his comping as well as the percussive strumming that playing them creates. He sounded to me as if he was playing a combination of bass and piano and guitar after he changed tunings. He also emphasized the wide range from his low C to his very top notes and used very accurate glissando's to play some very intricate lines when soloing.
His conception of soloing and accompanying changed when he retuned his bass. The double-stops in that tuning allowed him to play tenths and sixths with relative ease there by allowing him to insert chords into his walking and accompaniment in general. I have records where he played a melody while chordally accompanying himself very effectively and completely. Red incorporated these new techniques into his comping as well as the percussive strumming that playing them creates. He sounded to me as if he was playing a combination of bass and piano and guitar after he changed tunings. He also emphasized the wide range from his low C to his very top notes and used very accurate glissando's to play some very intricate lines when soloing.
Hi Paul,
Thanks so much, and here's your excuse to call Mrs. Mitchell. Hope there is a recording. I am really looking forward to spending time really getting inside on of his solos and learning more.
There is Live At Port Townsend so far, but I am looking for earlier works.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Janette
Thanks so much, and here's your excuse to call Mrs. Mitchell. Hope there is a recording. I am really looking forward to spending time really getting inside on of his solos and learning more.
There is Live At Port Townsend so far, but I am looking for earlier works.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Janette
As mws said, those pre-fifths Red records are all over the place. With the possible exception of Milt Hinton, Red may have been the most recorded bass payer in history.
Go over to our Recording forum heading and see the thread that relacey posted under my name: Paul Warburton's Our Delight.
My man Ron...( relacey ) also submitted a nice selection of Red stuff available on emusic, most with 4th tuning, some with gut strings, some with steel, and some with five string steel with a low B.
Then go back farther in this thread where many more are mentioned....If you wanna go more crazy, do a Red Mitchell search here on TB. You can also Googe Red's name for yet more.....If you'd like to make a list, post it here and ALL us Red nuts will tell you what tuning, string choice, is involved on your list, and maybe, how many times he went to the bathroom on some....
PS...Red just told me...To thank you for your interest...I talk to him alla time, even though he's gone.
Oh, an he just told me not to " study on him " too much. He said he'd rather have you just listen.
I'm on it, honey....chances are due to the popularity of A.L., during it's inception, it's prolly out there with Red.
As you know, after Miles' and Bill's definitive versions, it became unpopular to record in jazz circles. But, of course, became a workhorse in jazz sessions.
If you want a giggle, or, depending on you, a good puke, take a shot at hearing the original with the TWIN pianos of the infamous Ferrante And Teicher, by doing a youtube search under their names......Take me now, Jesus!
PS<<<< If you choose to attempt this daring move, please have Bill's or Miles' version all qued up and ready to go, to recover from this gut-wrenching experience.
PSS>>>> Now we'll see what kind of woman you really are, Janette.
As far as 5ths/4ths and I am pretty much 4ths player outside of dropping my E or B string midway through an improvisation and a few other situations where different tunings made sense.
I think the 5ths certainly lead Red to some different areas, but you can really get most of it with 4ths. It is like the French grip leads me to certain things the German grip doesn't, but I tend to be able to do the same things with both grips once I find them.
So there is plenty of information in Red's work for any improvising musician, especially bass players, whatever the tuning.
I think the 5ths certainly lead Red to some different areas, but you can really get most of it with 4ths. It is like the French grip leads me to certain things the German grip doesn't, but I tend to be able to do the same things with both grips once I find them.
So there is plenty of information in Red's work for any improvising musician, especially bass players, whatever the tuning.
- Dec 13, 1999
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- Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
I'm on it, honey....chances are due to the popularity of A.L., during it's inception, it's prolly out there with Red.
As you know, after Miles' and Bill's definitive versions, it became unpopular to record in jazz circles. But, of course, became a workhorse in jazz sessions.
If you want a giggle, or, depending on you, a good puke, take a shot at hearing the original with the TWIN pianos of the infamous Ferrante And Teicher, by doing a youtube search under their names......Take me now, Jesus!
PS<<<< If you choose to attempt this daring move, please have Bill's or Miles' version all qued up and ready to go, to recover from this gut-wrenching experience.
PSS>>>> Now we'll see what kind of woman you really are, Janette.
OK, geez.... the things I do for Talk Bass, Paul. I bucked up and did it.
Hey, as long as you turn the volume completely down and look at the video of fall foliage. From the little I heard, I think they were having some problems playing in time with the orchestra. I will not bore you with a post on fall foliage.
Now, I am ready for some real jazz. Its all qued up.
paul,
do you have anymore info on scott lafaro and his mentorship with red. i'm a huge lafaro fan. but i just switched to fifths and am learning about the great red.
also, would love to hear about your stints with bill evans!
james
do you have anymore info on scott lafaro and his mentorship with red. i'm a huge lafaro fan. but i just switched to fifths and am learning about the great red.
also, would love to hear about your stints with bill evans!
james
Hey James...First off, would you mind filling out a bit more information in your Profile? Age, musical likes ( liking Scott and your venture into fifths tuning, granted, says a lot ) What kind of bass you're playing, background...blah, blah...Thanks.
My very brief time with Bill is well documented here on TBDB.
Dig around under the Miscellaneous forum heading: Paul Warburton on playing with Bill Evans by My friend Bob Branstetter. ( Page 17 )
Red was one of the first people to recognize Scott's formidable talent. Also, the great lady jazz pianist Pat Moran who Scott did his first record with. She singlehandedly landed me the gig with Bill, on her word alone.
Red mentored Gary Peacock, Charlie Haden and a host of West coast, rather good jazz bassists. He was like a musical father to these guys, Scott in particular. He scored a whole bunch of work for Scott in those day's, being not only first jazz call but first bass call period. Red took Scott to pick out his famous Prescott bass. Ironically, Red was the one who delivered what was left of the bass, after the fiery car crash that took Scott's life, to Kolsteins in NY where it remains today, after a beautiful restoration by Barrie Kolstein.
I DO remember asking Red when I went out to visit him, in about 1960 or sumpin' like that, are there any good bassists coming up? He just couldn't say enough about this kid Scott LaFaro.
Thas' all I got. Thanks for asking James, and keep us posted.
My very brief time with Bill is well documented here on TBDB.
Dig around under the Miscellaneous forum heading: Paul Warburton on playing with Bill Evans by My friend Bob Branstetter. ( Page 17 )
Red was one of the first people to recognize Scott's formidable talent. Also, the great lady jazz pianist Pat Moran who Scott did his first record with. She singlehandedly landed me the gig with Bill, on her word alone.
Red mentored Gary Peacock, Charlie Haden and a host of West coast, rather good jazz bassists. He was like a musical father to these guys, Scott in particular. He scored a whole bunch of work for Scott in those day's, being not only first jazz call but first bass call period. Red took Scott to pick out his famous Prescott bass. Ironically, Red was the one who delivered what was left of the bass, after the fiery car crash that took Scott's life, to Kolsteins in NY where it remains today, after a beautiful restoration by Barrie Kolstein.
I DO remember asking Red when I went out to visit him, in about 1960 or sumpin' like that, are there any good bassists coming up? He just couldn't say enough about this kid Scott LaFaro.
Thas' all I got. Thanks for asking James, and keep us posted.
This last weeks for me had been Red Mitchell's weeks, i love his work with Hampton Hawes and yesterday i bought the CD "FOUR" . Red, Hampton, Barney Kessel and Shelly Manne
i never expected to say this as im a huge Paul Chambers fan, but Red Mitchell has some arco solos on this album that are out of this world, and his sound, is the sound of the bass that i love.
"bow jest" is so melodic... what an album.
and a story about Red that i read on a 90's U.K. jazz magazine.
Tal Farlow speaking about Red:
" Red Mitchell who was the bass player working with Charlie Mingus was ill and confined to bed for a while. he could play great jazz solos on the bass, but he couldnt play the bass in bed so they gave him a guitar. And the intervals of the lower four strings of the guitar are the same as the bass. he picked with his thumb and he got such an unusual sound, when we were jamming together sometimes i'd play the bass and he'd play theh guitar, and it was a sound i wanted to get myself. and i worked on it and it was only years later that i heard about Wes Montgomery , who did that all the time."
time to go back to the cd player...Red and Hampton are making my day
Nuno
i never expected to say this as im a huge Paul Chambers fan, but Red Mitchell has some arco solos on this album that are out of this world, and his sound, is the sound of the bass that i love.
"bow jest" is so melodic... what an album.
and a story about Red that i read on a 90's U.K. jazz magazine.
Tal Farlow speaking about Red:
" Red Mitchell who was the bass player working with Charlie Mingus was ill and confined to bed for a while. he could play great jazz solos on the bass, but he couldnt play the bass in bed so they gave him a guitar. And the intervals of the lower four strings of the guitar are the same as the bass. he picked with his thumb and he got such an unusual sound, when we were jamming together sometimes i'd play the bass and he'd play theh guitar, and it was a sound i wanted to get myself. and i worked on it and it was only years later that i heard about Wes Montgomery , who did that all the time."
time to go back to the cd player...Red and Hampton are making my day
Nuno
Wow. I may have written about this earlier, so please excuse possible redundancy. When the "Live at Sweet Basil" record came out, I was hanging out with a friend who is a classical pianist/composer and didn't at that time know much about jazz. There may have been some herbal experimentation involved. I played "Blue Dove", and when it was over, he just sat there for a few minutes, and finally said, "I've never heard anything like that before. The bass solo was like an opera. How does someone pack all those feelings into such a short span of time?"
Ah yeah, great trio.... Jim, Red, and Herb.
I dug Herb....but when he got into that Tiawanna brass ****, he lost his cool.
Here's an old Hampton Hawes cut from a Various artist-type piano trio collection at youtube. Red, and Donald Bailey on drums. "I'm all smiles" is one of my favorite standards to play on. 3/4. It's from an old movie called "The yearling", about a farm boy who falls in love with a deer. No solo by Red, but his hook-up with Donald is great. This was just when Red had switched from guts to steel. I did some dates with Donald in SF. That one ride cymbal he used just killed me. You can hear in here....almost a click click kinda sound. It sounded like he was playing it up by the bell, but no. I was shocked at what his set-up look like. Everything looked like it came out of an antique store. From beat one, it was heaven.
Prolly early 60ish.
Funny....you can hear Hamp start one of his licks just before Red's solo. He decides to let Red have it, then when Red finishes, he comes right back in with it. He just HAD to say that.
