WBO 23 - Certandan Deep Strings

[T_Bone_TL]

Very creative, and you must have managed something that's working well enough on the hair plugs.

However, on that subject, I will say that (apart from a certain aspect of the videos that is more groan inducing than amusing, for me - apparently I'm not French) that this linked thread and the linked videos has been exceedingly helpful for my very limited aspirations in archetiery. I'm going to link to my first post there, (under the theory that I was able to manage "the well-nigh impossible" first try, so it might be worthwhile) you'll want to scroll up to Post 1 for the main content. Rehairing bows in the Mirecourt style

Incidentally, i have yet to have a second failure or get around to rehairing the bow, as it still pays fine on the hair it has (which, I think, might be sacrilege in that sub-forum, where dead hair at 6 months is dogma as unquestioned as dead rounds after 6 months, or one month, or 3 seconds after you first touch them (I play tapes on electric and not concerning myself with the concept of "dead strings" is a delightful side effect.) I have 2 or three sets of new hair for whenever I might need them, but I've yet to hear, feel, or see any sign I do. Perhaps it's a side effect of using hard rosin rather than the endlessly debated sticky types popular with most folks there.

 

[Flamingo21]

Mirecourt, one of the Earth's focal points of instrument making! My previous viola was made there.

you must have managed something that's working well enough on the hair plugs.

With that, I followed established practice (as gleaned from YouTube and the like) as best I could, and I found it the most difficult and time-consuming part of the whole process.

I prefer not to create any groan inducing content, though that's an unattainable goal. Will you say what the offending aspect was in this case? (If it's my doubtful intonation: I'm aware of it, but how is that related to being French?)

 

[T_Bone_TL]

I prefer not to create any groan inducing content, though that's an unattainable goal. Will you say what the offending aspect was in this case? (If it's my doubtful intonation: I'm aware of it, but how is that related to being French?)

No, no! - nothing of yours is groan inducing, just a certain amount of gratuitous mammalian content in the videos at the head of the thread I linked. Which apparently appeals to the sensibilites of the (I believe) French Archetier making them. Which was (not very clearly on re-reading, I see) the "this thread" I meant in that post. Since the mysterious algorithm of when I can still edit my posts is letting me, I've now added "linked" to that in the post above.

 

[Crawforde]

Nice! I can’t wait till you have the big one strung up and hear you it sing.
You are motivating me to get back to my bows. Hopefully I can carve some plugs and get at least one of them haired this weekend. one of them only needs a single plug so maybe I’ll start with that.

 

[Flamingo21]

the mysterious algorithm

Mysterious indeed.

Thanks, now I understand. I have not yet made time to watch any of those videos, they may need to wait until after the Buildoff.

 

[Flamingo21]

You are motivating me to get back to my bows. Hopefully I can carve some plugs and get at least one of them haired this weekend. one of them only needs a single plug so maybe I’ll start with that.

Watching you with interest.

 

[Flamingo21]

Bought some Ebony and some Yellow Cedar.

From the Cedar I plan to make a bridge and a tailpiece. Right now I'm making tuning pegs from Ebony. This is how it works:

First, I cut a rough shape on the band saw.

Then I cut the square shape into an octagonal one, for which I built this very sophisticated holding fixture:

Then I folded 40 grit sanding paper in two, with the grit inwards, stuck the octagonal peg between, and just kept turning it until it became a round peg. This is hard on the hands and arms.

It will sit in a 10mm hole, you can turn it but it won't turn from the pull of a string. And you can pull it out of the hole but it won't work itself out. This makes me proud.

 

[Will_White]

Bought some Ebony and some Yellow Cedar.
View attachment 4976094

From the Cedar I plan to make a bridge and a tailpiece. Right now I'm making tuning pegs from Ebony. This is how it works:

First, I cut a rough shape on the band saw.
View attachment 4976101

Then I cut the square shape into an octagonal one, for which I built this very sophisticated holding fixture:
View attachment 4976105
View attachment 4976106
View attachment 4976109

Then I folded 40 grit sanding paper in two, with the grit inwards, stuck the octagonal peg between, and just kept turning it until it became a round peg. This is hard on the hands and arms.

View attachment 4976110
View attachment 4976111
View attachment 4976112

It will sit in a 10mm hole, you can turn it but it won't turn from the pull of a string. And you can pull it out of the hole but it won't work itself out. This makes me proud.

What are you planning to use for strings? Gut?

 

[Flamingo21]

Gut?

No, I went the cheaper route. The brand name is Gut-a-Like, that says it all. I got their "Vintage" string.
I bought them from Thomann, after they assured me that they're very fit for bowing.
The brown-ish colour is supposed to mimic a gut string.

 

[Crawforde]

Great. One more thing to look into.
thanks. Lol.
Hmmm what is the texture like?
Suitable for tied gut frets?

 

[Flamingo21]

what is the texture like?

There's a sort of rough "webbing" around the string. Depending on circumstances it can feel a little sticky.

Suitable for tied gut frets?

I have no experience at all with tied gut frets, but my gut says the strings will work with them just fine. (See what I did there?)
Thickness of the low A is 3.9 mm, that's 0.154".

 

[Flamingo21]

I doubt whether I'll ever buy Cedar wood again. When worked, it gives off a distinct smell that I don't like at all.
Anyway, I made a bridge of it. It only needs string slots. The design, as you can see, is typical Old Certandan.

 

[Beej]

What kind of cedar is it? The cedars I'm used to working with are cypresses I guess - western red cedar and yellow cedar. In either case, making a bridge so gossamer-like out of either of those would result in a crumpled pile of matchsticks under string pressure.

 

[Will_White]

What kind of cedar is it? The cedars I'm used to working with are cypresses I guess - western red cedar and yellow cedar. In either case, making a bridge so gossamer-like out of either of those would result in a crumpled pile of matchsticks under string pressure.

With two "gut" strings the tension isn't going to be that high.

 

[Flamingo21]

It is in fact Yellow Cedar.

 

[Beej]

Well, I'd like to caveat my previous assertion by reminding everyone that I'm an idiot.

 

[Flamingo21]

Still, I'm going to keep the paper template of the bridge, just in case I need it again.

 

[Flamingo21]

Cedar wood, I just learned, is the preferred wood for cigar boxes because its characteristic smell enriches the smell of the cigar. But I didn't like the smell at all when I made my bridge out of Cedar wood, so I changed my plan of making the tailpiece from it too. Instead, I used this iroko for the tailpiece:

And here it is. If you have trouble picturing this as a tailpiece, I'll show you later.

I made a spring system that presses against the leather from inside, counteracting the pressure that the bridge exerts:

Then it was time to string the bass up for the first time. That's when I found I cannot use the Cedar bridge at all, because my calculations were off. The bridge needs to be 10 cm tall, and it is only 7 cm. I'll have to make a new one, and it certainly won't be from Cedar. So we'll never know if @Beej was right about the Cedar bridge collapsing into a bunch of matchsticks.

After a first attempt to string it up with a makeshift bridge, there's plenty of stuff that needs addressing:

- One of the tuners doesn't stay put. (I may have bored its hole a trifle wide, even though I used the correct drill bit. These margins are small.)

- A new bridge, obviously.

- The spring system doesn't exert enough pressure, so I need to improve it.

- The sliding capo doesn't exist yet.

- The bow. I will either make a new one, or keep the one I have and reshape it to make it more sleek looking and lighter.

As you can see, I made a stand for the bass, so it can lean against things without toppling sideways. Also, you can simply lift the bass out of the stand, turn it 90 degrees and put it back in, so now it leans to one side. That's handy when you play it, because it leans against you, and you can let your bowing arm hang by your side and the bow will automatically be in playing position.

As promised, here's how the tailpiece works:

So there it is. It's definitely a musical instrument now. I can play it and make some very deep sounds, both pizz and arco. That's encouraging. But there's still a lot that doesn't work the way it should. Plenty left to do.

 

[T_Bone_TL]

Iteration is normal when making the first of anything, rather than following a previously refined plan.

 

[Reedt2000]

So cool

How did you end up tensioning the leather?