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We got bumped for.....Pitbull?

#181
eSmith said:
Jive1 (if that is your real name :eyebrow: ) I think that if you gave her a wardrobe change she would be indistinguishable from Marylin Manson..... and half of the fans wouldn't notice that the music had changed.

I don't think only Jazz is mature, many other music is very thought provoking and enlightening. It's just that jazz guys are NOT about image (although without effort they personify just the image most are looking to emulate, think "Cool")

They are totally dedicated to the instrument, not to what they wear or how they peacock around. Jazz really is a music where image does't mean a thing if you can play well enough.

You could be a bass god and without a pointy enough bass the metal band won't have you. And if you outplay the guitard, same thing, won't have you.... So, in a way, musical skill can be a problem if you want to pursue metal.

The metal industry is just trying to pry dollars out of teenagers by giving them IMAGE. Music is just one tiny part of that image, the clothing, lifestyle and attitude are every bit as equal and sometimes more effort is put on those things than the music.

Sorry, I haven't seen anything in metal that is directed at a 40 year old who is interested in music theory.

-eSmith.
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You are out of touch. Check out a band called "Between the Buried and Me" if you want to see a metal band that is not about image and is totally about amazing musicianship. No pointy guitars there.
 
#182
BigOldHarry said:
Look, there are guys who are in Jazz who are "all about image", so there are guys who like music and guys who like "the vibe", ya know. I don't mean to slam all metal fans - that I don't like metal just means that *I* don't like it... but to me, the majority of it is like folks who ride Harleys. All image, all noise. And anger - - what's with all this anger? I *get* anger when you're a 14 year old guy - hell, I was 14 once and I was all full of piss and vinegar... but the whole "I'm a badass" thing is just goofy - at least to me.

When I was working at music stores in the '80s, I knew dudes who got all the demon/skull/chain tats you can imagine - all metal players - and most were really nice guys. So, once I got to know them, I'd ask - "what's with all the prison/mercenary ink?" - they's just shrug and say "it's cool!". Me, I like the occasional zombie movie too - but I ain't gonna get inked up about it!
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And that was the 80's. I feel the current rock music of today is more filled with "I'm a badass grrr" than metal is.

As far as metal being "all noise", I feel you are out of touch, there is a lot of beautiful, complex, and groovy metal out there today. You just have to look for it.
 
#183
jive1 said:
I guarantee you that if Celine Dion dressed up all goth and started singing "My Heart Would Go On", not only would the fans notice the music has changed, they would boo and riot.




You mean the Jazz guys sporting a soul patch, ivy cap, blazer with a turtle neck are just doing that for practical purposes. Right........ And a kid wearing a Metallica shirt, blue mohawk, and a chain dangling from his nose who plays bass like Christian McBride would be welcome to sit in on a jam at the swanky martini bar in the swanky part of town too. Right..........



Unlike other forms of Rock music where you can get by on 3-4 chords, 4/4 time and the pentatonic scale, some Metal requires using modes like the Locrian and Phrygian, use odd meters, and has multiple riffs and parts in a song. Quite honestly, Metal when it is done right requires as much dexterity and music theory as Jazz. Lots of Metal has classical roots. But one place where the Metal guys take it up a notch is that they require more endurance. Even the easiest Metal passages get hard when you're playing it loud, at a fast tempo all night long.



You can say that about just about any type of music as well. Difference is that music like Jazz and Blues sell their image to adults. Don't think so? Go to an open Blues or Jazz open mic where you can see some accountant dressed up like a Beatnik or a lawyer sporting a fedora playing a beat up guitar that he spent $5000 on. Surely, it's all about the music, right?
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Finally, a guy who knows what he is talking about. Thank you.
 
#184
jive1 said:
I guarantee you that if Celine Dion dressed up all goth and started singing "My Heart Would Go On", not only would the fans notice the music has changed, they would boo and riot.




You mean the Jazz guys sporting a soul patch, ivy cap, blazer with a turtle neck are just doing that for practical purposes. Right........ And a kid wearing a Metallica shirt, blue mohawk, and a chain dangling from his nose who plays bass like Christian McBride would be welcome to sit in on a jam at the swanky martini bar in the swanky part of town too. Right..........



Unlike other forms of Rock music where you can get by on 3-4 chords, 4/4 time and the pentatonic scale, some Metal requires using modes like the Locrian and Phrygian, use odd meters, and has multiple riffs and parts in a song. Quite honestly, Metal when it is done right requires as much dexterity and music theory as Jazz. Lots of Metal has classical roots. But one place where the Metal guys take it up a notch is that they require more endurance. Even the easiest Metal passages get hard when you're playing it loud, at a fast tempo all night long.



You can say that about just about any type of music as well. Difference is that music like Jazz and Blues sell their image to adults. Don't think so? Go to an open Blues or Jazz open mic where you can see some accountant dressed up like a Beatnik or a lawyer sporting a fedora playing a beat up guitar that he spent $5000 on. Surely, it's all about the music, right?
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I've seen this countless times.

It's even better on "bike nights" on the weekends.
A lawyer type won't shave from Thursday, so Saturday he'll look a little scruffy.
Toss on some "relic'd" leather jacket (yes, they sell them. Just like basses) and a old pair of boots and jeans.
Then pull up on their tricked out $35,000 Harley that's loud as hell, nicely polished and nothing for miles on it and act like a "biker".
Don't get me wrong. I keep my bike clean. I like nice little chrome bits here and there.
But I ride the HELL out of my bike(s).
If it's above 40 and dry. I pretty much ride.
Above 60 and I don't care as long as it's not hail (you don't know pain until you take hail on the top of your hands/knuckles at highway speeds......)
 
#185
Burlington said:
And that was the 80's. I feel the current rock music of today is more filled with "I'm a badass grrr" than metal is.

As far as metal being "all noise", I feel you are out of touch, there is a lot of beautiful, complex, and groovy metal out there today. You just have to look for it.
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Fair enough... But I don't think I'll go looking - I've had enough guitar-based rock & roll for one lifetime! When I listen to music anymore, it's usually jazz, funk or classical. Yeah, I'm old. But you too will be old one day...!

But back to the original topic: It seems most folks agree that the OP was "Acting Metal" - What does that say about "Metal"???
 
#186
BigOldHarry said:
Fair enough... But I don't think I'll go looking - I've had enough guitar-based rock & roll for one lifetime! When I listen to music anymore, it's usually jazz, funk or classical. Yeah, I'm old. But you too will be old one day...!

But back to the original topic: It seems most folks agree that the OP was "Acting Metal" - What does that say about "Metal"???
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It gives metal a bad name.... it makes people think that everyone in metal bands acts like that. Makes me sad.
 
#187
BigOldHarry said:
Fair enough... But I don't think I'll go looking - I've had enough guitar-based rock & roll for one lifetime! When I listen to music anymore, it's usually jazz, funk or classical. Yeah, I'm old. But you too will be old one day...!

But back to the original topic: It seems most folks agree that the OP was "Acting Metal" - What does that say about "Metal"???
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I don't agree. It says nothing about metal because you can't equate a personality with a genre of music.
 
#188
Beatniks? sorry, thats noit jazz.... Sure, people have tried to hijack the image that jazz has naturally developed but that doesn't make them jazz musicians. In fact, I think when you see people trying to be "Jazz" it is a sure sign they are not.

As Mikebass pointed out, there are guys who fake being bikers, we all know the type and I'm sure would agree, they are not real bikers, just people trying to rip off an image. Same thing with Jazz. Soul patches and turtlenecks are not my style. Most guys I know wear jeans and sweatshirts.

Maybe I am out of touch. it's been a while since I was 14. Metal lost it's appeal to me then and I have not paid any attention to it since.

"Between the Buried and Me"
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OK, I'll check them out tonight.

-eSmith.
 
#189
eSmith said:
Beatniks? sorry, thats noit jazz.... Sure, people have tried to hijack the image that jazz has naturally developed but that doesn't make them jazz musicians. In fact, I think when you see people trying to be "Jazz" it is a sure sign they are not.

As Mikebass pointed out, there are guys who fake being bikers, we all know the type and I'm sure would agree, they are not real bikers, just people trying to rip off an image. Same thing with Jazz. Soul patches and turtlenecks are not my style. Most guys I know wear jeans and sweatshirts.

Maybe I am out of touch. it's been a while since I was 14. Metal lost it's appeal to me then and I have not paid any attention to it since.

OK, I'll check them out tonight.

-eSmith.
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You may be surprised at the opening track to their newest album. The song is called "Mirrors".

On another note, this thread has inspired me to make a new thread that will attempt to disprove metal stereotypes. I'll try to get it together tonight.
 
#190
And as an additional defense of the virtues of Metal.

Lots of kids got into playing an instrument because of Metal, including myself. Even though I'm not a Metal musician anymore and have expanded past that, it did get me interested in music. And I'm absolutely positive I'm not the only one.

I've met plenty of guys into Metal at Jazz, Country, and Top 40 gigs. Heck, I even met an opera singer who was totally into Ronnie James Dio and credited him as major influence. Now that Metal is more mature than it was in the 80s, some of you would be surprised to see how many serious, professional and seasoned musicians started out as kids playing Metal in their parents garage. Me, I'm not surprised at all.
 
#194
Lots of kids got into playing an instrument because of Metal, including myself.
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I can't argue with that. I think your 100% right and it was the same for me, I loved lots of metal bands in the 80's but as my knowledge of music grew and exposure to other musicians and styles grew, I lost interest in the music that always appeals to the base instincts, never refined emotion.

Like a caveman playing drums, prolly gonna be very energetic but not very musical. Thats how metal became for me, lots of high energy but not much productivity.

I had a guy tell me about what he called "Math Metal" once and I almost fell over laughing. It was the string players equvilent of the "Worlds Fastest Drummer" Contest (which has nothing at all to do with playing the drums, just hitting them fast with a complete disregard for any concept of music) Any of you into that blanket of white noise?

-eSmith.
 
#195
eSmith said:
Beatniks? sorry, thats noit jazz.... Sure, people have tried to hijack the image that jazz has naturally developed but that doesn't make them jazz musicians. In fact, I think when you see people trying to be "Jazz" it is a sure sign they are not.

As Mikebass pointed out, there are guys who fake being bikers, we all know the type and I'm sure would agree, they are not real bikers, just people trying to rip off an image. Same thing with Jazz. Soul patches and turtlenecks are not my style. Most guys I know wear jeans and sweatshirts.

Maybe I am out of touch. it's been a while since I was 14. Metal lost it's appeal to me then and I have not paid any attention to it since.

OK, I'll check them out tonight.

-eSmith.
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not some burly hardcore biker type.
Not at all.
I don't care for that "Harley lifestyle" deal with all the leather and rough look.
I just like bikes and like to ride.
Sure, I own a black Harley leather riding jacket. But it's not one emblazed with a large logo or stuff on it.

I also hang as well with the rice burning crowd as I do with the Harley crowd.
As I do with metal guys and jazz guys too.

There are image concerned players- Look it and talk it. Be it Jazz, Metal, Country or anything.
It's the "every Italian is "connected" and every black guy is from the ghetto" types for example, who live through those images (and perpetuate them) for social acceptance/attention on a large scale.
But those who are in it, see right through it quickly.

The OP pretty much did, IMO, live to an "image" of metal.
"I'm a badass. I'll take his beer and punch him in the face, then go get high".
To most, that's what "metal" kinda is.
Again, to those really in it, that was a joke.

If it's not image, why was it a big deal when James Hetfield cut his hair short?????
 
#196
MikeBass said:
But those who are in it, see right through it quickly.

The OP pretty much did, IMO, live to an "image" of metal.
"I'm a badass. I'll take his beer and punch him in the face, then go get high".
To most, that's what "metal" kinda is.
Again, to those really in it, that was a joke.
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THIS. Thank you.

I laugh at people who must portray the "metal" image. I may look a little odd myself, I have gauged ears and my septum pierced. I still clean up nice if I do say so myself. Too many bands that we play with are more obsessed with what they look like or act like. Some will give respect for a group that looks "badass" but only plays power chords and has no musicianship in their songs. Me and my peers do not. We could care less if we look like a bunch of dorks. We let our playing do the talking.

(Pssst, check to link in my sig, listen to my band)
 
#197
WOW!!! Can TB take the collective stick out of your collective dupa!!! Great story, well written, even the booing at the end. Screw that guy for not learning the real "whom the bell tolls" line. That hack and his hack of a band was making bank. Sorry but hack is hack. I learned that line note for note at the age of 14 and never once got paid for it. I think it was a proper ending to a great mis-adventure. The drugs and booze make for a real and interesting part of the story.

Like the poster said, haters gonna hate. Was this the Crazy Donkey by chance?
 
#198
TheVoiceless said:
WOW!!! Can TB take the collective stick out of your collective dupa!!! Great story, well written, even the booing at the end. Screw that guy for not learning the real "whom the bell tolls" line. That hack and his hack of a band was making bank. Sorry but hack is hack. I learned that line note for note at the age of 14 and never once got paid for it. I think it was a proper ending to a great mis-adventure. The drugs and booze make for a real and interesting part of the story.

Like the poster said, haters gonna hate. Was this the Crazy Donkey by chance?
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Maybe it's not fans of metal that this thread has given bad names to... seems more like people from New Jersey.
 
#199
I think it was a proper ending to a great mis-adventure. The drugs and booze make for a real and interesting part of the story.
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No, not even close, a proper ending would have been the guy he boo'd getting fired in the wake of this guys awsomeness and then to celebrate he would have gone over to guitar center, found some kid looking at buying his first bass, and kicked him in the shin..... then he'd have gone for a blunt.......

-eSmith.
 

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